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Post by mark687 on Jul 21, 2017 11:51:43 GMT
Doctors "Clash" on Casting
www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40679134
So what's your take on this and the Casting Debate/ Reaction in general?
I knew it would happen but I'm surprised by how strong the negativity (including from women as well)is, it flies in the face of the shows fundamental traits inclusiveness.
(Please keep comments as respectful as possible)
Regards
mark687
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jul 21, 2017 11:55:06 GMT
That's interesting, because I can see Jodie being a mix of 5 and 8
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 12:26:31 GMT
Colin Baker's being a bit self-centered and dictatorial there...
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Jul 21, 2017 12:34:24 GMT
Colin Baker's being a bit self-centered and dictatorial there... He should join this forum.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 12:42:11 GMT
I can understand the backlash, I would've been right there with them a couple years ago. However, what I think this boils down to is the normal knee-jerk reaction to a new Doctor amplified tenfold because of how radical a departure it is. Let's not pretend that it isn't, it truly is a massive change to the status quo. That said, I'm with Baker and Agyeman, I don't see it as an issue.
It's not as if the previous fifty years of the show have been wiped clear, we still have all our Doctors and our fondness for them. Nothing has been taken away. No more than when a young Peter Davison -- the youngest incarnation ever at that point -- took over the role from Tom Baker.
Also, I know it's off topic, but looking at the most read articles: what kind of monster fines a five-year-old girl £150 for a lemonade stand?
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Post by jasonward on Jul 21, 2017 13:00:05 GMT
Doctors "Clash" on Casting
www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40679134
So what's your take on the Casting Debate?
I knew it would happen but I'm surprised by how strong the negativity (including from women as well)is, it flies in the face of the shows fundamental traits inclusiveness.
(Please keep comments as respectful as possible)
Regards
mark687 I'm thinking the article overstates the "clash", these are two people that know each other well (at least on a professional level, no idea if they have a personal friendship beyond that) and were on stage together, I suspect that afterwards both would be surprised to see headline news on the BBC website describing their discussion as a clash.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 21, 2017 13:07:15 GMT
I can understand the backlash, I would've been right there with them a couple years ago. However, what I think this boils down to is the normal knee-jerk reaction to a new Doctor amplified tenfold because of how radical a departure it is and let's not pretend that it isn't because it truly is a massive change to the status quo. But I'm with Baker and Agyeman, I don't see it as an issue. It's not as if the previous fifty years of the show have been wiped clear, we still have all our Doctors and our fondness for them. Nothing has been taken away. No more than when a young Peter Davison -- the youngest incarnation ever at that point -- took over the role from Tom Baker. What's changed your mind?
Regards
mark687
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 13:16:54 GMT
I can understand the backlash, I would've been right there with them a couple years ago. However, what I think this boils down to is the normal knee-jerk reaction to a new Doctor amplified tenfold because of how radical a departure it is and let's not pretend that it isn't because it truly is a massive change to the status quo. But I'm with Baker and Agyeman, I don't see it as an issue. It's not as if the previous fifty years of the show have been wiped clear, we still have all our Doctors and our fondness for them. Nothing has been taken away. No more than when a young Peter Davison -- the youngest incarnation ever at that point -- took over the role from Tom Baker. What's changed your mind?
Regards
mark687
Good question. It took me ages to figure out what exactly bothered me about it and I discovered that it wasn't the idea of a woman Doctor which made me unhappy. It was the idea that they'd falter with creating her, change her into an unfaltering Mary Sue or drown her in jokes about her gender. I wanted her to be just as good as her predecessors with all their triumphs, virtues, faults and failures. Ignoring the shallow abuse, that's where I believe the rational concern is coming from. But again, this isn't a new phenomenon. People were upset about a young Doctor, people were upset about an unstable Doctor, people were upset about a darker Doctor, people were upset about a romantically and sexually active Doctor, people were upset about an interim Doctor, people were upset about an older Doctor and so on... I feel that this too will ultimately pass.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 13:18:15 GMT
I do wish we could all get to a point where we could disagree without the need to shout down the opposite viewpoint just as a matter of course, at least. That would be nice. Probably all but impossible with the way that things are these days, though. Unfortunately.
As for the 'clash' itself, seems like a bit of a media beat up to be honest.
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Post by jasonward on Jul 21, 2017 13:19:43 GMT
What's changed your mind?
Regards
mark687
...people were upset about a romantically and sexually active Doctor... I feel that this too will ultimately pass. Not so sure it will all pass, I still really really don't like the idea of Doctor being romantically involved, but then that's because for me that's the arena of soap operas a genre of TV I detest.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 13:21:42 GMT
...people were upset about a romantically and sexually active Doctor... I feel that this too will ultimately pass. Not so sure it will all pass, I still really really don't like the idea of Doctor being romantically involved, but then that's because for me that's the arena of soap operas a genre of TV I detest. I'm in the same boat along with not liking the War Doctor, but we're not going to grab our Acme-brand torches and set fire to the nearest broadcasting studio over it. It's just a background buzz, if even that. It doesn't stop us from enjoying the rest of the show's elements, right? I do wish we could all get to a point where we could disagree without the need to shout down the opposite viewpoint just as a matter of course, at least. That would be nice. Probably all but impossible with the way that things are these days, though. Unfortunately. As for the 'clash' itself, seems like a bit of a media beat up to be honest. Knowing how the two of them (and people in general) behave at conventions, I'm willing to believe it was just a civil airing of views. I stumbled across a recording of an old convention in 1993 with Colin Baker and Michael Jayston. Colin was very evenhanded about what happened with Grade, but Michael was quite firmly on Baker's side of the situation and thought it unfair. Baker was a strong proponent of the idea long before this kerfuffle happened, so it's not out-of-character.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 13:40:50 GMT
I love it that two former Doctors are in 'friendly' disagreement about this (although Colin might be rather less belittling). Apart from anything else, the debate they have is more interesting than the usual 'everything's great' style of output neccessitated by respective production teams. I also really liked Davison's earlier tweet "It might be more helpful to be encouraging, and not simply scornful, of fans who are uncertain about change."
My take on the casting (not that anyone should care)? I'm not angry, neither am I elated. I'm pretty non-plussed, and that's the first time that has ever happened, except perhaps with Capaldi's casting initially - and he has become my favourite of the 'Nu Whos'. I'm sorry to see that Doctor Who, escapist and limitless, is now being used as what I see to be a political ping-pong ball. We're even supposed to be elated that Jodie will be paid the same as Peter C. It's not something that should be up for debate, in my opinion. Frankly, it's no-one's business but their own. I don't want to see jokes about gender, because I don't care about that. I don't want to see Doctor Who being reduced to a series of 'statements' - and the extreme reaction of some fans - on both sides of the debate, is sad and regrettable. I've always been positive about Doctor Who, and have tolerated the more extreme fans because I love the show, and I love the idea of the show. Now, I find I don't love it. I don't dislike it. I might well watch series 11 and be hooked all over again.
Anyway, I wanted to put my cards on the table about it all - not, as I continue to stress, that anyone should care what I think. But I think I'll limit my time here to joining the dwindling number of posters who talk about Big Finish productions, because that's currently where my interest - and love - is.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Jul 21, 2017 15:20:06 GMT
That's interesting, because I can see Jodie being a mix of 5 and 8 I've only seen her in Attack the Block (which she was great in) but that was my thought as well after the reveal, I can see her being a more adventurous but enigmatic figure...
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 21, 2017 15:54:45 GMT
Hopefully having Peter Davison enter the debate - he's hardly a right-wing reactionary, after all - will shut down some of the people presenting this as a black-and-white, nice-people-say-yes nasty-people-say-no argument.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 16:34:53 GMT
Yeah. Sad thing is that Colin Baker is making the argument objective. At least, Peter Davison is being subjective about him, which is unusual considering his past behaviour.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 17:03:52 GMT
Seems like something being blown way out of proportion
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 17:11:40 GMT
Yeah. Sad thing is that Colin Baker is making the argument objective. At least, Peter Davison is being subjective about him, which is unusual considering his past behaviour. I really appreciate the way Peter is handling it. He's sad about it and doesn't think it was the right move, but admits he's old fashioned and that it may just be that times have changed. Ironically, Tom Baker was perhaps one of the first to suggest the possibility of a female Doctor before Peter was even cast.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 17:12:10 GMT
Yeah. Sad thing is that Colin Baker is making the argument objective. At least, Peter Davison is being subjective about him, which is unusual considering his past behaviour. I really appreciate the way Peter is handling it. He's sad about it and doesn't think it was the right move, but admits he's old fashioned and that it may just be that times have changed. Ironically, Tom Baker was perhaps one of the first to suggest the possibility of a female Doctor before Peter was even cast. Jokingly though
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 17:32:49 GMT
Yeah. Sad thing is that Colin Baker is making the argument objective. At least, Peter Davison is being subjective about him, which is unusual considering his past behaviour. I really appreciate the way Peter is handling it. He's sad about it and doesn't think it was the right move, but admits he's old fashioned and that it may just be that times have changed. Ironically, Tom Baker was perhaps one of the first to suggest the possibility of a female Doctor before Peter was even cast. But should Peter have to put his own views down in such a way?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 17:37:32 GMT
I was just happy to log on to the Beeb at lunchtime and Colin Baker was on the main page I've made my feelings clear, but I'm glad the show is causing such debate and maintaining relevance.
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