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Post by TinDogPodcast on Sept 24, 2018 6:36:01 GMT
Question.
Does any one who voted leave have guilty feelings now? Or regret or remorse?
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on Sept 24, 2018 10:27:28 GMT
I certainly know of some non-voters who have regrets. They were remainers who saw the pre-referendum opinion polls and assumed they didn't need to vote because remain would win.
I also know (anecdotally, not personally) of some who voted leave as a protest vote secure in the knowledge - thanks to opinion polls - that remain would win.
I personally think a 2nd referendum would have a higher turnout and would be a remain vote, but that is just my opinion.
I think the way we are most likely to get a 2nd referendum is if there is a "no deal" outcome from the negotiations, but that would mean a high risk, high stakes "all or nothing" gamble for the UK.
If there is a deal I think it will get through Parliament by hook or by crook. The government will threaten remainers with no deal if they do not support it and will threaten brexiteers with a 2nd referendum and potentially no brexit if they do not support it. So it will end up being everyone's 2nd choice and better than risking the alternative they fear most.
But I wouldn't bet any money on any particular outcome at this stage.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on Sept 25, 2018 14:04:19 GMT
One thing at least has become clearer this week thanks to Labour's muddle over whether or not remain would be an option in any potential 2nd referendum. Even though the UK looks to be changing its mind on brexit, there is now an unholy alliance, comprising Farage, Rees-Mogg and Johnson on the alt right and Corbyn / McDonnell and McCluskey on the alt left, which determined to prevent us changing direction.
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Sept 25, 2018 14:21:28 GMT
Is anyone offering a remain option?
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Post by muckypup on Sept 25, 2018 14:32:35 GMT
I know ten people who voted leave that have died since the vote..........
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on Sept 25, 2018 15:40:42 GMT
Is anyone offering a remain option? It seems pretty clear that the vast majority of the labour party would like to, but the leadership is preventing them
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 15:41:11 GMT
Is anyone offering a remain option? You would hope so but our politicians are much too proud to do that.
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Sept 26, 2018 14:27:10 GMT
You know that UKIP were a party... regardless of motivation who just wanted a referendum. ...
Cant we have a new party
Ukreferendum reversal party.
With Only one policy
A new referendum and then we get amother election when the remaining. .. idiots can take power again.
Can we have that please.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on Oct 12, 2018 15:04:23 GMT
following all the latest news, I've got to wonder, why is Theresa May even trying at this stage?
If there is no agreement, she keeps the brexiteers in her party and the DUP happy that she hasn't caved in to the EU, the House of Commons will more than likely force a 2nd referendum, which remain would win if I was a straight choice between no deal or no brexit. Given that May was a remainer who thought and likely still thinks we were better off in the EU, this seems like a win win for her. UK stays in EU, all the thorny brexit issues get shelved and her right wing can blame the EU rather than her for no deal and resultant referendum.
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Post by mark687 on Oct 12, 2018 15:24:41 GMT
following all the latest news, I've got to wonder, why is Theresa May even trying at this stage? If there is no agreement, she keeps the brexiteers in her party and the DUP happy that she hasn't caved in to the EU, the House of Commons will more than likely force a 2nd referendum, which remain would win if I was a straight choice between no deal or no brexit. Given that May was a remainer who thought and likely still thinks we were better off in the EU, this seems like a win win for her. UK stays in EU, all the thorny brexit issues get shelved and her right wing can blame the EU rather than her for no deal and resultant referendum. At this point I reckon No Deal almost certainly, cuts and Taxes galore Trade deals that cost ( I think trade with the EU will cost us less then with anyone else though) more UK Laws made (less than people think though), immigration down (but will it lead to a workforce decline?), but your right currently its a Win Win for Government because They can go "This is what the People Voted for We warned them there would be Challenges".
Regards
mark687
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 12, 2018 16:13:01 GMT
What a mess. Honestly, coming from someone who is watching this from the outside- can there, in all seriousness, be any winners here? Or is that too cynical?
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Post by number13 on Oct 12, 2018 16:45:38 GMT
I think there IS movement towards a deal; if it's correct that the EU has accepted that any temporary Customs Union arrangement must be for the WHOLE UK, that removes the problem of splitting the Union and would avoid the turmoil of an immediate 'no deal'.
But many Brexiteers would hate the idea of even a temporary CU and the PM has said over and over again 'out of the Customs Union' so it would have to be definitely temporary, time-limited from the start.
Goodness knows what's going to happen with the deal/no deal - but the politics seems clear - and confused at the same time!
The Conservatives are the government (albeit a minority government) because they attracted many non-Conservative pro-Brexit voters in 2017; if they deliver any Brexit that is seen to be Brexit, even a no-deal Brexit, they may very likely win the next election barring a sudden major recession etc. Otherwise - out.
Because MPs know this, that would decide what happens in Parliament under normal circumstances - but with Brexit and the current Parliamentary maths all bets are off. I can imagine enough MPs voting for personal beliefs and against party advantage, in both directions, to give very unexpected results.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Oct 25, 2018 21:34:52 GMT
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 26, 2018 8:34:03 GMT
While I agree that this whole shambles will be worse than thought, I think it will not be as bad as feared. I also do not know what and who is helped by this fearmongering- it just drives people into panic mode and anyone knows how hard it is to think critically when paniced. This is how rash and unqualified decisions get made.
A few weeks ago, I had been to a scientific conference and one of the keynote speakers prophesized doom and gloom and insisted that humanity would start extinction as soon as 2050. While he was right in some of the points he made, several other scientists, including me, were quick in pointing out the flaws in his pretty predictions.
I might often be on the bad side of realism when I look into the future, but so far I had always hope, and during my life, everything that was sold to me beforehand as a worse-case-scenario never was as bad as feared.
Maybe bad example, but look at the Y2K bug and how that turned out- back then, we (family and other villagers) were even standing on the lookout tower on the hills above my village, looking down towards our nuclear power plant, ready to see the fireworks. Fatalistic, I know, but how would we have escaped anyways? But my dad lives for hope and he even goes around our region planting apple trees as signs of hope for everyone to see, defiant to the last.
Since politicians in my opinion always work towards their own goals, and always look after themselves and their advantage, I am quite sure that the whole Brexit kindergarten will come to some sort of last minute heroic agreement. Which will satisfy no one, but will prevent a worst case scenario.
My 2 cents.
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Post by number13 on Oct 26, 2018 9:51:09 GMT
Since politicians in my opinion always work towards their own goals, and always look after themselves and their advantage, I am quite sure that the whole Brexit kindergarten will come to some sort of last minute heroic agreement. Which will satisfy no one, but will prevent a worst case scenario. My 2 cents.
This! I wanted us to Remain but now I'm hoping for any OK deal to extract us with as little pain as possible for both 'sides'. I too think there will be a reasonable UK-EU deal made at 23:59:59. Last minute deals are an EU tradition aren't they?
I think the big problem is the numbers in our Parliament - unless a lot of MPs abandon hardline Brexit or opposition opportunism and agree that an imperfect deal is an OK deal and the best we could have expected. There's also talk of a second referendum now but I think that could be at best risky.
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Post by jasonward on Oct 26, 2018 9:59:09 GMT
Since politicians in my opinion always work towards their own goals, and always look after themselves and their advantage, I am quite sure that the whole Brexit kindergarten will come to some sort of last minute heroic agreement. Which will satisfy no one, but will prevent a worst case scenario. My 2 cents.
This! I wanted us to Remain but now I'm hoping for any OK deal to extract us with as little pain as possible for both 'sides'. I too think there will be a reasonable UK-EU deal made at 23:59:59. Last minute deals are an EU tradition aren't they?
I think the big problem is the numbers in our Parliament - unless a lot of MPs abandon hardline Brexit or opposition opportunism and agree that an imperfect deal is an OK deal and the best we could have expected. There's also talk of a second referendum now but I think that could be at best risky.
A last minute deal? I'm pessimistic, not because I think that the people doing the negotiating don't want to get a deal, but because even if a deal can be made, it will need the approval of the UK parliament and as the above article makes clear, the EU's hands are largely tied by treaties, that can't just be changed.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on Oct 26, 2018 10:38:44 GMT
Since politicians in my opinion always work towards their own goals, and always look after themselves and their advantage, I am quite sure that the whole Brexit kindergarten will come to some sort of last minute heroic agreement. Which will satisfy no one, but will prevent a worst case scenario. My 2 cents.
This! I wanted us to Remain but now I'm hoping for any OK deal to extract us with as little pain as possible for both 'sides'.
I wanted us to remain, but I'm hoping for no deal as that is the most likely scenario to bring about a second referendum with a different result.
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Post by sherlock on Oct 26, 2018 11:27:38 GMT
A last minute deal just won’t work this time, due to the need to get Parliament to approve it. There’s enough hardcore eurosceptics that them voting it down to opt for no deal at all is a genuine possibility. And then we really are screwed.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Oct 26, 2018 15:48:30 GMT
Bloody brexit...sigh.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Oct 26, 2018 16:36:51 GMT
There are terrible things afoot in the world...and they must be fought(!)...but Brexit is an entirely self generated sh*tstorm that never needed to happen. We're into year 3 of this absolute nonsense that is devouring almost all political will and motivation, with vast amounts of other things, necessary and vital things, suffering despite being more important, and the UK hasn't even left yet!!!
GAH!
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