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Post by Chakoteya on Feb 3, 2021 16:40:14 GMT
Ah, the joys of collective responsibility - having to get 27 countries to agree to spend loads of money takes longer than one government acting alone - even if you have Bozo the clown in charge.
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 3, 2021 17:13:24 GMT
I expected Brexit to lead to 'divergence'. I never expected it to lead to the EU entering a parallel universe.
and
while
and
Even allowing for most politicians' inability to ever admit that 'the other side' have got it right and they haven't, this has gone well past ridiculous.
Not sure which parallel universe we are talking about, but is this the same Ursula Van der Leyen who got sacked from being German defense minister.... for causing one incompetence SNAFU after the next, including pearls like ordering new assault guns for our army, which bend when they heat up from rapid fire.... so the German army, if we should have to invade anybody soon, will be experts in shooting around corners....
At least she is an expert in causing memorable SNAFUs and now at least everybody knows her name (and will not forget it in a hurry).
Germany says- "You are welcome. We love to share."
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,813
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Post by lidar2 on Feb 11, 2021 16:59:57 GMT
Brexit going as well as expected - although that may sound like a gloating Remainer, I take no pleasure in it at all Amsterdam replaces London as the largest share trading hub in Europe www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56017419
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Feb 14, 2021 17:24:04 GMT
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Post by number13 on Feb 14, 2021 19:32:14 GMT
Was it a cockle-up or they just didn't have the mussel to block it? Oh whelk, best if I just clam up. (Winkle winkle )
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Feb 14, 2021 22:20:39 GMT
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Post by number13 on Feb 15, 2021 0:25:53 GMT
Excellent to see a politican taking the long view. Usually there's far too much short-termism from politicans only caring about the next election.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 10:42:55 GMT
Was it a cockle-up or they just didn't have the mussel to block it? Oh whelk, best if I just clam up. (Winkle winkle ) They are all prawns in a bigger game of chess. Perhaps they need to set up a shell company to land their catch within the bloc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 18:06:30 GMT
Phew! - That's a relief. Arch-Remainer's can rest easy. The EU is actually doing much better with its Vaccine strategy than the UK. According to The Guardian. Good news to some. Brexit Britain's victory over the EU on Covid vaccination is not what it seems "The bloc’s joint vaccines strategy – far from being a fiasco – is delivering a better outcome than the UK’s": by Jean Quatremer, Brussels correspondent of Libération
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Post by number13 on Feb 15, 2021 21:27:38 GMT
Phew! - That's a relief. Arch-Remainer's can rest easy. The EU is actually doing much better with its Vaccine strategy than the UK. According to The Guardian. Good news to some. Brexit Britain's victory over the EU on Covid vaccination is not what it seems "The bloc’s joint vaccines strategy – far from being a fiasco – is delivering a better outcome than the UK’s": by Jean Quatremer, Brussels correspondent of Libération Remarkable article. Still going on about the gap between doses and this despite the WHO scientists coming down very firmly in support of the UK's strategy. And The Gaurdian is printing it. Well, comment is free, but my comment in response would be unprintable.
For anyone who didn't see the story (Sky had it a lot more prominently than the BBC) here it is:
'The UK has been "vindicated" over its "brave" decision to offer vaccines doses up to three months apart, the World Health Organisation's special envoy on COVID-19 has said.'
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,813
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Post by lidar2 on Feb 16, 2021 9:09:51 GMT
Phew! - That's a relief. Arch-Remainer's can rest easy. The EU is actually doing much better with its Vaccine strategy than the UK. According to The Guardian. Good news to some. Brexit Britain's victory over the EU on Covid vaccination is not what it seems "The bloc’s joint vaccines strategy – far from being a fiasco – is delivering a better outcome than the UK’s": by Jean Quatremer, Brussels correspondent of Libération I don't think anyone in the UK is arguing the EU has done better than the UK on vaccines.
The only silly argument I have come across being made in the UK re vaccines is the leaver argument that the UK's better performance is due to brexit.
As has been said above and elsewhere, the EU27's decision to act collectively on vaccines was a voluntary decision on their part into which all 27 freely opted - a very bad decision as it turns out, but not one that was compulsory for EU members. It was not required under EU law or under any treaty. Had the UK voted differently in 2016 we would have been free to opt out and go our own way. Whether we would actually have done so in that scenario is a moot point and something we will never know, but the current vaccine issue simply has no bearing on the question of leave or remain/rejoin.
We should not however be surprised by the way leavers are spinning this. Disingenuousness and misrepresentation are the standard leaver m.o. - if not the defining characteristic - and by leaver standards this is one of their lesser whoppers.
Meanwhile, away from the short term headlines and vaccine jingoism, we still await the EU's decision on whether they will grant the UK financial services regulations the status of equivalence with EU regulations with or without a requirement for alignment. To briefly recap, the UK is primarily a service based economy, love it or loathe it the City of London is a key part of the UK economy, so this is by any standard a matter of vital economic interest to the UK that will have major long term implications for our economy and prosperity (unlike the speed of the vaccine rollout which will have short term impact only). Unfortunately we have played our best cards already in the various negotiations to date - over the NI/ROI border, over fish, over security co-operation, etc - and don't really have any left up our sleeve, so we are dependent entirely on the EU's good graces and noble sense of fair play for the decision to go our way. When we get shafted, as we doubtless will, the leavers will true to form blame the EU for not sticking to the brexiteers' script rather than looking in the mirror and asking why on earth we were ever foolish enough to put ourselves in this position in the first place.
So leavers should enjoy their gloat while it lasts, and whilst I am certainly not displeased that the UK is doing as well as it is on vaccines, I can't help but worry for our country when I remember the old saying that he who laughs last, laughs the longest.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 16, 2021 11:54:15 GMT
Phew! - That's a relief. Arch-Remainer's can rest easy. The EU is actually doing much better with its Vaccine strategy than the UK. According to The Guardian. Good news to some. Brexit Britain's victory over the EU on Covid vaccination is not what it seems "The bloc’s joint vaccines strategy – far from being a fiasco – is delivering a better outcome than the UK’s": by Jean Quatremer, Brussels correspondent of Libération I don't think anyone in the UK is arguing the EU has done better than the UK on vaccines.
The only silly argument I have come across being made in the UK re vaccines is the leaver argument that the UK's better performance is due to brexit.
As has been said above and elsewhere, the EU27's decision to act collectively on vaccine's was a voluntary decision on their part that into which all 27 freely opted - a very bad decision as it turns out, but not one that was compulsory for EU members. It was not required under EU law or under any treaty. Had the UK voted differently in 2016 we would have been free to opt out and go our own way. Whether we would actually have done so in that scenario is a moot point and something we will never know, but the current vaccine issue simply has no bearing on the question of leave or remain/rejoin.
We should not however be surprised by the way leavers are spinning this. Disingenuousness and misrepresentation are the standard leaver m.o. - if not the defining characteristic - and by leaver standards this is one of their lesser whoppers.
Meanwhile, away from the short term headlines and vaccine jingoism, we still await the EU's decision on whether they will grant the UK financial services regulations the status of equivalence with EU regulations with or without a requirement for alignment. To briefly recap, the UK is primarily a service based economy, love it or loathe it the City of London is a key part of the UK economy, so this is by any standard a matter of vital economic interest to the UK that will have major long term implications for our economy and prosperity (unlike the speed of the vaccine rollout which will have short term impact only). Unfortunately we have played our best cards already in the various negotiations to date - over the NI/ROI border, over fish, over security co-operation, etc - and don't really have any left up our sleeve, so we are dependent entirely on the EU's good graces and noble sense of fair play for the decision to go our way. When we get shafted, as we doubtless will, the leavers will true to form blame the EU for not sticking to the brexiteers' script rather than looking in the mirror and asking why on earth we were ever foolish enough to put ourselves in this position in the first place.
So leavers should enjoy their gloat while it lasts, and whilst I am certainly not displeased that the UK is doing as well as it is on vaccines, I can't help but worry for our country when I remember the old saying that he who laughs last, laughs the longest.
I agree. We are only just in the first leg of the race - the real test with the vaccination programme is coming soon i.e. vaccinating the younger populations and getting them to get their second dose and not assume one is enough.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Feb 21, 2021 10:02:00 GMT
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Post by Chakoteya on Feb 21, 2021 10:59:35 GMT
From where I'm sitting, it looks as if most of the rest of the world is watching the UK vaccine rollout as if it is the planet's biggest drugs trial. Can't really blame them, and the figures on efficacy do keep changing from time to time. Still at least we're not also dealing with Ebola and Y.pestis like they are in parts of Africa.
As for Brexit - still waiting to see Made in Britain appearing on our prescription medicines packets with any frequency. Now that would be a Good Thing to happen.
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Post by number13 on Feb 21, 2021 13:42:38 GMT
I don't think anyone in the UK is arguing the EU has done better than the UK on vaccines.
The only silly argument I have come across being made in the UK re vaccines is the leaver argument that the UK's better performance is due to brexit.
As has been said above and elsewhere, the EU27's decision to act collectively on vaccine's was a voluntary decision on their part that into which all 27 freely opted - a very bad decision as it turns out, but not one that was compulsory for EU members. It was not required under EU law or under any treaty. Had the UK voted differently in 2016 we would have been free to opt out and go our own way. Whether we would actually have done so in that scenario is a moot point and something we will never know, but the current vaccine issue simply has no bearing on the question of leave or remain/rejoin.
We should not however be surprised by the way leavers are spinning this. Disingenuousness and misrepresentation are the standard leaver m.o. - if not the defining characteristic - and by leaver standards this is one of their lesser whoppers.
Meanwhile, away from the short term headlines and vaccine jingoism, we still await the EU's decision on whether they will grant the UK financial services regulations the status of equivalence with EU regulations with or without a requirement for alignment. To briefly recap, the UK is primarily a service based economy, love it or loathe it the City of London is a key part of the UK economy, so this is by any standard a matter of vital economic interest to the UK that will have major long term implications for our economy and prosperity (unlike the speed of the vaccine rollout which will have short term impact only). Unfortunately we have played our best cards already in the various negotiations to date - over the NI/ROI border, over fish, over security co-operation, etc - and don't really have any left up our sleeve, so we are dependent entirely on the EU's good graces and noble sense of fair play for the decision to go our way. When we get shafted, as we doubtless will, the leavers will true to form blame the EU for not sticking to the brexiteers' script rather than looking in the mirror and asking why on earth we were ever foolish enough to put ourselves in this position in the first place.
So leavers should enjoy their gloat while it lasts, and whilst I am certainly not displeased that the UK is doing as well as it is on vaccines, I can't help but worry for our country when I remember the old saying that he who laughs last, laughs the longest.
I agree. We are only just in the first leg of the race - the real test with the vaccination programme is coming soon i.e. vaccinating the younger populations and getting them to get their second dose and not assume one is enough.
Let's hope the frantic anti-Boris twitterers and activists can stop worrying about how he looks wiping a chair with sanitiser, and start messaging their hordes of (I expect mostly young) followers for a useful reason.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,813
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Post by lidar2 on Feb 23, 2021 23:10:11 GMT
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Post by number13 on Feb 24, 2021 2:27:43 GMT
Whoever could you mean?
Actually I read their website frequently, but I do like my little joke at those people (not you, I know) who apparently regard it as the only source of unvarnished truth, while thinking that any newspaper even slightly to the right isn't fit to put down on the kitchen floor on a muddy day in case it morally pollutes the soles of one's organic, artisan-crafted sandals.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 24, 2021 3:05:11 GMT
Whoever could you mean?
Actually I read their website frequently, but I do like my little joke at those people (not you, I know) who apparently regard it as the only source of unvarnished truth, while thinking that any newspaper even slightly to the right isn't fit to put down on the kitchen floor on a muddy day in case it morally pollutes the soles of one's organic, artisan-crafted sandals. I mean, even kitchen mud from Chernobyl would deem The Daily Mail as 'hazardous matter that may also cause nausea and infertility'.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Feb 24, 2021 11:24:53 GMT
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Post by number13 on Feb 24, 2021 14:17:40 GMT
Whoever could you mean?
Actually I read their website frequently, but I do like my little joke at those people (not you, I know) who apparently regard it as the only source of unvarnished truth, while thinking that any newspaper even slightly to the right isn't fit to put down on the kitchen floor on a muddy day in case it morally pollutes the soles of one's organic, artisan-crafted sandals. I mean, even kitchen mud from Chernobyl would deem The Daily Mail as 'hazardous matter that may also cause nausea and infertility'. I like the way you put it but...
allowing for the article style (I'm trying not to use the word "tabloid", which seems a bit snobby to me, but it's in the same way I allow for the style of the Mirror, for example) they have some good articles sometimes, on some subjects. (Oh yes they do! )
I can 'filter' efficiently material from there, or The Guardian / Mirror for that matter. Views don't always have to match my views, 'comment is free' as another paper says. In fact I'd say no single newspaper does match my views even half the time, some more, some less, so I prefer to browse around the MSM and agree or disagree with them as I choose. I'm much too socially liberal for some papers, much too economically 'dry' for others, too proud of Britain and pro-business for the liking of some editorial lines, too interested in the wider world and environmental policy for others, and so on.
For example, not long ago the Mail had an excellent, very detailed article on the UK vaccine rollout at about the same same that the Guardian had an article explaining why France was doing better than the UK because they had vaccinated around 0.25% of people with two doses and that was more than us and only two doses really count... So which paper was better reading at that time, on that subject?
For another example, since this is the Brexit thread, no newspaper has ever matched my views on Brexit. 'Immigration' was never a problem for me, but nor did I believe we were a nasty nation which needed to be guided by an enlightened Eurocracy. I welcomed free trade, even if it came with Europe-wide rules, but could not understand people defending all those rules or the CFP or worse, the CAP, just because they were rules of the EU. I believe we need to take firm international action, quickly, to rescue the global environment, but I don't yearn for effectively the overthrow of industrial Capitalism in five years, or five months, or whatever it was. So I can't say, this paper is bad, this paper is good.
(All got a bit serious, sorry. On a lighter note, these days I try not to even glance at the comments below any article, on any subject, on any news site; there's something about people who post their opinions online... present forum company excepted, naturally. )
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