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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 15:22:23 GMT
Am I the only one really bored of the Time War? Not so much bored of it as I have just completely bypassed it. Along with Stranded & TLV it but the brakes on collecting the whole 8th Doctor range for myself. Plenty of Main Range releases still to get as well as Ravenous. I guess that the Daleks for me are still 75% visual appeal thanks to Ray Cusick's timeless design. On audio, it just feels like the same old case of Nick barking into a microphone, whist one gazes at the cover or their 7" Dalek Toy variants.. It's like the limitation of so many audio alien villains sounding exactly the same as the Gelth from The Unquiet Dead on TV, or the Sirens of Time from release no 1. When you cannot marvel at the visual effects departments work, they all become a bit generic after a while, and assume them to be dimension hopping versions of Willo the Wisp.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 15:43:09 GMT
Am I the only one really bored of the Time War? Not so much bored of it as I have just completely bypassed it. Along with Stranded & TLV it but the brakes on collecting the whole 8th Doctor range for myself. Plenty of Main Range releases still to get as well as Ravenous. I guess that the Daleks for me are still 75% visual appeal thanks to Ray Cusick's timeless design. On audio, it just feels like the same old case of Nick barking into a microphone, whist one gazes at the cover or their 7" Dalek Toy variants.. It's like the limitation of so many audio alien villains sounding exactly the same as the Gelth from The Unquiet Dead on TV, or the Sirens of Time from release no 1. When you cannot marvel at the visual effects departments work, they all become a bit generic after a while, and assume them to be dimension hopping versions of Willo the Wisp. Am not even sure it’s the Daleks or anything as am all on board to see what Dalek Universe Brings....I was kind of cheesed off The War Master was extending hahah as it thought finally we were reaching THE END but it seems we are reaching the ENDLESS lol
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 16:03:45 GMT
Not so much bored of it as I have just completely bypassed it. Along with Stranded & TLV it but the brakes on collecting the whole 8th Doctor range for myself. Plenty of Main Range releases still to get as well as Ravenous. I guess that the Daleks for me are still 75% visual appeal thanks to Ray Cusick's timeless design. On audio, it just feels like the same old case of Nick barking into a microphone, whist one gazes at the cover or their 7" Dalek Toy variants.. It's like the limitation of so many audio alien villains sounding exactly the same as the Gelth from The Unquiet Dead on TV, or the Sirens of Time from release no 1. When you cannot marvel at the visual effects departments work, they all become a bit generic after a while, and assume them to be dimension hopping versions of Willo the Wisp. Am not even sure it’s the Daleks or anything as am all on board to see what Dalek Universe Brings....I was kind of cheesed off The War Master was extending hahah as it thought finally we were reaching THE END but it seems we are reaching the ENDLESS lol Well - yeah, its nothing to do with whether its good or bad (It must be good by popularity) but more listening habits, as opposed to taste. When someone listens to a lot (like yourself) story arcs seems a logical means of providing more depth. A loyalty scheme of sorts. For listeners like me who dip in infrequently and very randomly, self contained tales without much by the way of continuity or required prior listening have more appeal. But clearly it works for others. I always like to be upbeat and avoid critique, especially for anything I have not seen or heard, but the Time War had just finished in 2005....and it was a great piece of tantalising mythology building. The more I read of the synopses, I feel that RTD's tantalising wordplay still has more appeal and imagination than space battles and Gallifreyan politics. For me at least. Maybe a rest is overdue...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 16:09:47 GMT
Am not even sure it’s the Daleks or anything as am all on board to see what Dalek Universe Brings....I was kind of cheesed off The War Master was extending hahah as it thought finally we were reaching THE END but it seems we are reaching the ENDLESS lol Well - yeah, its nothing to do with whether its good or bad (It must be good by popularity) but more listening habits, as opposed to taste. When someone listens to a lot (like yourself) story arcs seems a logical means of providing more depth. A loyalty scheme of sorts. For listeners like me who dip in infrequently and very randomly, self contained tales without much by the way of continuity or required prior listening have more appeal. But clearly it works for others. I always like to be upbeat and avoid critique, especially for anything I have not seen or heard, but the Time War had just finished in 2005....and it was a great piece of tantalising mythology building. The more I read of the synopses, I feel that RTD's tantalising wordplay still has more appeal and imagination than space battles and Gallifreyan politics. For me at least. Maybe a rest is overdue... Actually am not a big fan of arcs am very much a classic Who Guy individual stories with very little connection. I do enjoy things that do have a connection Ravenous those little hints during Hex stories etc .I loved Capaldis and Pearls stories but felt they could have missed out the little Missy Bits and saved them for a story on their own.. Am pretty positive about Bf on the whole and can enjoy things as they are without endlessly wondering where they fit in chronology wise I have long since let any coherent chronology in my mind jump out the window lol...The Time War had the odd few good tales... it for me it’s kind of a dead duck now...but if others really enjoy it that’s good room for everyone.Seriously I wonder if even the writers are bored of it hahahah in fact out of the whole Time War Saga in all the ranges I only think Time War 4-Mcganns had any real impact on me...I cannot automatically recall a story where I thought wow that was fecking awesome
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Post by mark687 on Feb 6, 2021 16:27:03 GMT
No fine with as much Time War as they've got just wish at least one TV or long term BF character would be killed off by it (there is supposed to be a War on)
Regards
mark687
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Post by Digi on May 2, 2021 20:32:24 GMT
There’s some references in Gallifrey: Time War 4 which imply the Doctor has become the War Doctor. So I’ve shuffled Volumes 3 and 4 (which kinda tie together) to after The Night of the Doctor.Pure speculation at this point, but I'm choosing to shuffle things around a little bit so that... Chapter 6 - The Good Man - (Eighth Doctor stories) - Night of the Doctor Chapter 7 - The Doctor of War - The War Doctor Begins range - The Plague of Dreams (now the Player sees what the Doctor has become) Chapter 8 - Exiles - Gallifrey Time War 3 (they've been away from Gallifrey for a bit) - Gallifrey Time War 4 (specific mention that the Doctor has changed) Chapter 9 - Last Days - the original War Doctor range (so there's a gap between young War in Ch7 and old War here) - Engines of War - The End of Time (Rassilon has finally finished the work he began in GTW4) - The Last Day - The Day of the Doctor The layout of that appeals to me, personally. We'll see how it goes as more stories are released though
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Post by sherlock on Jun 22, 2021 8:50:52 GMT
War Doctor Begins and other stories where the War Doctor is young now have their own act straight after The Night of the Doctor.
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Post by sherlock on Aug 6, 2021 11:25:15 GMT
Well Killing Time presents a problem- {Spoiler} So chronologically it seems to be implied that’s its during The Sky Man for the Master. Fine, but for a listening order (which this really is rather than chronology) I cannot in good conscience recommend someone pause The Sky Man, listen to Killing Time and then resume for two reasons-
A. The Sky Man is brilliant by itself and I can’t see any benefit to interrupting it.
B. Killing Time doesn’t actually have any relevance to The Sky Man, so it wouldn’t really enhance The Sky Man to hear Killing Time during it.
I guess I could put it between The Sky Man and The Heavenly Paradigm, but interrupting Only the Good’s arc like that feels like an unnecessary detour.
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Post by shallacatop on Aug 6, 2021 12:05:55 GMT
I’d just put it before Only the Good with the caveat that it happens during The Sky Man. None of the events of Killing Time spoil it, you can’t put it after The Heavenly Paradigm due to the events of that and it doesn’t interrupt the flow of either set.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2021 12:07:42 GMT
Well Killing Time presents a problem- {Spoiler} So chronologically it seems to be implied that’s its during The Sky Man for the Master. Fine, but for a listening order (which this really is rather than chronology) I cannot in good conscience recommend someone pause The Sky Man, listen to Killing Time and then resume for two reasons-
A. The Sky Man is brilliant by itself and I can’t see any benefit to interrupting it.
B. Killing Time doesn’t actually have any relevance to The Sky Man, so it wouldn’t really enhance The Sky Man to hear Killing Time during it.
I guess I could put it between The Sky Man and The Heavenly Paradigm, but interrupting Only the Good’s arc like that feels like an unnecessary detour. I mean listening order should just be release order shouldn’t it, chronology is always a separate thing to a satisfying listening order even if sometimes listening chronologically can work.
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Post by sherlock on Aug 7, 2021 11:05:32 GMT
Put Killing Time as it’s own Act prior to main action of Only the Good.
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brian
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Post by brian on Aug 12, 2021 19:01:18 GMT
So, I've been listening to the Time War stories using Sherlock's listening order. It's mostly worked out great, but I noticed one issue. In Susan's War, they talk about the CIA being disbanded. All of the 8th Doctor Time War sets come after Susan's War, but in the first 8th Doctor Time War set, they talk about the CIA, and it's still active; it hasn't been disbanded yet. Since the Doctor has Bliss through all four sets, and he is alone in All Hands on Deck and The Shoreditch Intervention, then all four of the 8th Doctor Time War sets need to come before All Hands on Deck. Then Susan's War, A Heart on Both Sides, Museum Peace and Night of the Doctor.
Actually, when does the CIA get disbanded? Is it at the end of Gallifrey Time War 2? If so, then the first 8th Doctor Time War box set needs to be before Gallifrey Time War 2. At least, that's how it seems to me.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Aug 12, 2021 19:19:59 GMT
So, I've been listening to the Time War stories using Sherlock's listening order. It's mostly worked out great, but I noticed one issue. In Susan's War, they talk about the CIA being disbanded. All of the 8th Doctor Time War sets come after Susan's War, but in the first 8th Doctor Time War set, they talk about the CIA, and it's still active; it hasn't been disbanded yet. Since the Doctor has Bliss through all four sets, and he is alone in All Hands on Deck and The Shoreditch Intervention, then all four of the 8th Doctor Time War sets need to come before All Hands on Deck. Then Susan's War, A Heart on Both Sides, Museum Peace and Night of the Doctor. Actually, when does the CIA get disbanded? Is it at the end of Gallifrey Time War 2? If so, then the first 8th Doctor Time War box set needs to be before Gallifrey Time War 2. At least, that's how it seems to me. The 8TW sets can’t really come before All Hands on Deck and Susan’s war for spoilerific reasons. Considering Eight is constantly avoiding the War, I don’t think it’s impossible to think that he experiences some events out of order.
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Post by sherlock on Aug 12, 2021 19:40:51 GMT
So, I've been listening to the Time War stories using Sherlock's listening order. It's mostly worked out great, but I noticed one issue. In Susan's War, they talk about the CIA being disbanded. All of the 8th Doctor Time War sets come after Susan's War, but in the first 8th Doctor Time War set, they talk about the CIA, and it's still active; it hasn't been disbanded yet. Since the Doctor has Bliss through all four sets, and he is alone in All Hands on Deck and The Shoreditch Intervention, then all four of the 8th Doctor Time War sets need to come before All Hands on Deck. Then Susan's War, A Heart on Both Sides, Museum Peace and Night of the Doctor. Actually, when does the CIA get disbanded? Is it at the end of Gallifrey Time War 2? If so, then the first 8th Doctor Time War box set needs to be before Gallifrey Time War 2. At least, that's how it seems to me. Ah glad to hear the order works. It’s been a while since I gave it a proper runthrough, and fair few releases have been added since then. So the CIA is officially disbanded and subsumed into the IDU (Rassilon’s secret police) in Assassins at the end of Gallifrey-Time War 2. Oddly the same story makes a point of including lines that specifically point to Eighth Doctor-Time War 1 being after it. In a War Council meeting, a War Councillor (forget if they have a name) mentions two items of interest; the ongoing establishment of off-world training camps and giving Ollistra special dispensation (which I guess is Time Lord speak for doing whatever she wants without checking in with her superiors). As Ollistra’s strategies and an off world Time Lord training camp are pretty crucial parts of Eighth Doctor-Time War 1, that seemed an oddly specific way of indicating that it’s after Assassins. Though admittedly, it wouldn’t be the first time a writer threw in a reference without thinking through the implications. Worth noting CIA agents turn up again in Engines of War, so it’s possible a subset of the IDU kept the name going for whatever reason, which the Eighth Doctor and Susan could’ve been unaware of. Susan’s War, I’m at a bit of a disadvantage as I haven’t heard it yet personally (it’s on the list to acquire). It’s positioning is based in part on it featuring an incarnation of Rasmus played by Damian Lynch (who turns up in pre-Time War stories Dark Universe and Deeptime Frontier). Eighth Doctor-Time War 4 features Chris Jarman as Rasmus, having regenerated off-screen, and that incarnation reappears in Forged in Fire. As there is no handy gap in the Eighth Doctor Time War saga where the Doctor ditches Bliss somewhere for a bit to conveniently get involved with Susan, that meant Susan’s War kinda had to beforehand for consistency on who is playing Rasmus. That could be the wrong approach, and I’m open to changing it around.
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brian
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Post by brian on Aug 13, 2021 14:28:04 GMT
So the CIA is officially disbanded and subsumed into the IDU (Rassilon’s secret police) in Assassins at the end of Gallifrey-Time War 2. Oddly the same story makes a point of including lines that specifically point to Eighth Doctor-Time War 1 being after it. In a War Council meeting, a War Councillor (forget if they have a name) mentions two items of interest; the ongoing establishment of off-world training camps and giving Ollistra special dispensation (which I guess is Time Lord speak for doing whatever she wants without checking in with her superiors). As Ollistra’s strategies and an off world Time Lord training camp are pretty crucial parts of Eighth Doctor-Time War 1, that seemed an oddly specific way of indicating that it’s after Assassins. Though admittedly, it wouldn’t be the first time a writer threw in a reference without thinking through the implications. Worth noting CIA agents turn up again in Engines of War, so it’s possible a subset of the IDU kept the name going for whatever reason, which the Eighth Doctor and Susan could’ve been unaware of. It could be that the camp in 8th Doctor Time War 1 was the first such camp and Ollistra was previously given permission to create one, as sort of a test case. Then the War Council gives her permission to create more camps. Susan’s War, I’m at a bit of a disadvantage as I haven’t heard it yet personally (it’s on the list to acquire). It’s positioning is based in part on it featuring an incarnation of Rasmus played by Damian Lynch (who turns up in pre-Time War stories Dark Universe and Deeptime Frontier). Eighth Doctor-Time War 4 features Chris Jarman as Rasmus, having regenerated off-screen, and that incarnation reappears in Forged in Fire. As there is no handy gap in the Eighth Doctor Time War saga where the Doctor ditches Bliss somewhere for a bit to conveniently get involved with Susan, that meant Susan’s War kinda had to beforehand for consistency on who is playing Rasmus. That could be the wrong approach, and I’m open to changing it around. Well, the thing with the CIA being disbanded was the only thing that stuck me as obviously being out of order. I just finished the 8th Doctor Time War 4 set today, so I'll be moving on to Gallifrey Time War 3 and 4 and then the War Doctor stories. (I'm not doing the War Doctor Begins stories, as I think only John Hurt should play the War Doctor.) Once you get and listen to Susan's War, then listen to the 8th Doctor Time 1 war set right after, and see how it seems to you. While nothing else seemed obviously out of order, there was one other thing. I felt that the 8th Doctor Time War 1 set happened much earlier in the chronology. Perhaps as early as right after Celestial Intervention. The Starship of Theseus seems like the start of the war to me. The Doctor is traveling with Sheena before the war starts. Then the war hits, the timeline gets rewritten a few times and the Theseus goes from a luxury liner to a refugee ship. Then after 8th Doctor Time War 1, it would explain why Romana, at the end of Solider Obsura, says that the Doctor won't help them so they need the Master. The problem with moving the 8th Doctor Time War 1 to after Celestial Intervention is that Rage of the Time Lords and Hearts of Darkness would need to be before it, as the 8th Doctor is alone in those stories. On the other hand, the 8th Doctor Time War 4 mentions Rassilon as President, so that would have to be at least after Gallifrey Time War 1 and probably 2 as well. This would break up the discrete parts that you have (Outbreak, Master of War, etc). Listening to it using those parts is a perfectly valid way of listening to it. I think I'll probably adjust my own version of the chronology to make it move back and forth between the various ranges more frequently, more like "Winds of War". However, I'd never be able to make my own version, without having yours to start with.
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Post by Digi on Aug 14, 2021 16:11:00 GMT
Thoughts on the Nyssa ordering, re: her Killing Time appearance coming before her appearance in A Heart on Both Sides? I guess it depends on whose POV we’re watching from…
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Post by sherlock on Aug 14, 2021 16:23:22 GMT
Thoughts on the Nyssa ordering, re: her Killing Time appearance coming before her appearance in A Heart on Both Sides? I guess it depends on whose POV we’re watching from… Honestly they could be either way round. It depends if anything ever follows up on how Nyssa ends up in Killing Time.
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Post by mark687 on Oct 26, 2021 10:06:17 GMT
Dorney's opinion to a recent Time War Timeline
Regards
mark687
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Post by sherlock on Oct 26, 2021 10:40:16 GMT
Well as I’ve always said this thread is not a strict chronology, but rather trying to put all the Time War content into something of satisfying listening experience.
For example, I’m of the mind that the Eighth Doctor in War Master is long after his travels with Bliss, but it’s more satisfying to follow the Master’s chronology through his spin off as it overlaps with Gallifrey.
I think a true chronology would have stories appearing multiple times from differing characters’ perspectives.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 15, 2022 19:21:06 GMT
The War Master: Hearts of Darkness kinda emphasises my point that this order is not chronological.
Obviously the ideal place to listen to it in the context of the broader saga is during the War Master’s main act, cos he’s the lead and it’s his story this range is following. But not so linear for everyone else involved.
Narvin is present here with the CIA, on the Master’s trail post-Soldier Obscura presumably, as is the Eighth Doctor, who admits to considering joining the fighting so is real near The Night of the Doctor. The Master also mentions Rassilon, so is presumably aware of his resurrection even though the Time Lords we see him later recruited by in The Devil You Know have yet to do that.
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