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Post by thethirddoctor on Jun 8, 2018 20:36:08 GMT
Never ever felt need to gender change.......and the abhorrent way it’s been handled I still wish we never had. She is defiantly the wrong person for the job, it gets worse with with every tiny reveal, and a secretly hoping that it all fails spectacularly For me it’s finished me going forward.......I have not intention to watch it onwards......cancellation would have been a easier pill to swallow. But the way some people have reacted to my dislike of the gender change has made me realise that fandom is no safe haven any longer or respecter of viewpoints. have got rid of 90% of my doctor who stuff from cookie jars to action figures......I am embarrassed to have been such a fanboy. Its opened me up to all the jokes and jibes that I suffered when I came out. Old wounds never really heal and the thing that I found comfort in last time is now the source of the hurt. I really do hope that all the casual viewer and equality band wagon jumpers that campaigned for this stick by it and make it the success........I remember listening to a certain celeb who thought is was brilliant, then when asked why she wanted the change said girl power....but asked if she watched it ....no, will you watch it now......no. But I still love big finish. I hope you're quoting other fans. Cause, I'm keeping all my Classic Who related stuff simply because I love that period. It is really stupid to sell any DW merchandise because you don't like the next Doctor.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jun 8, 2018 23:34:52 GMT
But in the 80's he did suggest to the BBC that they should consider casting a woman.. Thankfully, they didn't listen to him. For someone against the idea you sure are talking about it a lot... For myself, I've never doubted that the producers always wanted the best actors they could get. I'm another person who saw Romana as a prototype for a female Doctor and probably wouldn't have objected too loudly had it happened back in the day: courtesy of the Target books, I had little trouble accepting that the Doctor could be different people at different points in his life.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 0:18:00 GMT
This pretty much sums up my view. I didn't NOT want a female Doctor, but I wasn't losing any sleep over the lack of one either. Lalla Ward's performance as the Doctor in The Horns of Nimon had convinced me a long time ago that a female Doctor could and would work well. I am looking forward to series 11.
I think the right time for a female Doctor would have been when Matt left, before Missy had blazed a trail. This time around it just felt like the BBC were taking the easy way out and following the line of least resistance.
Can't agree with you on that. I think there still needed to be building blocks and Missy was it.
And credit to Michelle Gomez, she has completely sold me on the notion of a female Master. Now that I give it some thought... Huh. Neat. She might be one of my favourite incarnations since Delgado. I've really enjoyed how the mad Mary Poppins act is played as just a blind she puts up. A feint. As soon as she's talking to the Doctor or someone has sussed out she's way more rational than she appears (how she talks one-on-one to Clara in The Magician's Apprentice, for example) -- it just falls away and we get the real Missy: "No, I am perfectly sane. Reasonable even," she chuckles. "Yes... Isn't that far more terrifying than being just plain bonkers, m'girl?" Thankfully, they didn't listen to him. For someone against the idea you sure are talking about it a lot... For myself, I've never doubted that the producers always wanted the best actors they could get. I'm another person who saw Romana as a prototype for a female Doctor and probably wouldn't have objected too loudly had it happened back in the day: courtesy of the Target books, I had little trouble accepting that the Doctor could be different people at different points in his life. *sotto voce* (Can we put a pin in that idea for a potential Wordsmiths? I think that's rather rad.)
Would have been easy to do back in the day, they already had the subrange set up in The Companions of Doctor Who. Interesting idea, shame we only got three entries from it. I think I've still got Harry Sullivan's War tucked away somewhere...
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 9, 2018 0:31:29 GMT
Never ever felt need to gender change.......and the abhorrent way it’s been handled I still wish we never had. She is defiantly the wrong person for the job, it gets worse with with every tiny reveal, and a secretly hoping that it all fails spectacularly For me it’s finished me going forward.......I have not intention to watch it onwards......cancellation would have been a easier pill to swallow. But the way some people have reacted to my dislike of the gender change has made me realise that fandom is no safe haven any longer or respecter of viewpoints. have got rid of 90% of my doctor who stuff from cookie jars to action figures......I am embarrassed to have been such a fanboy. Its opened me up to all the jokes and jibes that I suffered when I came out. Old wounds never really heal and the thing that I found comfort in last time is now the source of the hurt. I really do hope that all the casual viewer and equality band wagon jumpers that campaigned for this stick by it and make it the success........I remember listening to a certain celeb who thought is was brilliant, then when asked why she wanted the change said girl power....but asked if she watched it ....no, will you watch it now......no. But I still love big finish. I hope you're quoting other fans. Cause, I'm keeping all my Classic Who related stuff simply because I love that period. It is really stupid to sell any DW merchandise because you don't like the next Doctor. You know, I'm a big enough man to admit that thirddoctor has made a legitimately good point here that more of fandom could and should take to heart.
Plus, what message are you/do you think you're actually sending the Beeb by doing this? They have your money from your original purchase, what you do with the merch after is not their problem or concern. You sell a boatload of used DVDs or bath towels on Ebay? Makes zero difference to the Beeb's bottom line or decisions. It won't make them fire Jodie.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 9, 2018 0:46:47 GMT
Never ever felt need to gender change.......and the abhorrent way it’s been handled I still wish we never had. She is defiantly the wrong person for the job, it gets worse with with every tiny reveal, and a secretly hoping that it all fails spectacularly For me it’s finished me going forward.......I have not intention to watch it onwards......cancellation would have been a easier pill to swallow. But the way some people have reacted to my dislike of the gender change has made me realise that fandom is no safe haven any longer or respecter of viewpoints. Now, mucky's free to feel and engage with the franchise however he wants. That's his right as a fan and a consumer, and nobody can or should take that away.
But, if I can voice the opposite view, everything so far has me excited because it feels like the show is daring to actually be about something again. Much as I love Capaldi and think Moffat found his footing again in Series 10 (bar monk hiccups), there's no getting around the fact that the era played things very safe, very familiar and, more importantly, very traditionalist. Nostalgia was doubled down on hard during Capaldi's era and there was a concentrated effort to making it 'feel' like the Classic show, just with a souped up budget. Needless to say, irrespective of our own individual opinions, the ratings reflected the wisdom of that choice. It didn't work for the casuals and, like it or not, if they go we don't get to have all the cool toys we've gotten to play with.
I, personally but I wouldn't be surprised if others feel the same, don't watch NuWho to constantly be reminded how great Classic was. I watch NuWho for New Who: no, not every story has to be an original, genre-reinventing masterwork, but I expect it to at least be playful, experimental and above all, not cowardly or afraid to take chances. I will always respect a creator's sincere vision and voice, even if I don't like it, over cheap baiting and 'must do this because fans say so' any day of the week. Because I care about Who as a storytelling powerhouse more than my own petty wants as a fanboy. If those little girls, dressed as 13, get something out of it, why on earth shouldn't they? Why should we not give Jodie the same fair shake and, even if we don't care for her, let her be someone's 'Doctor'.
(Also, not directed at you mucky, but can people stop pretending Capaldi's casting wasn't pandering too? Remember how hard they sold him as being an 'old school' Doctor, how gruff and angry he was, and 'not pretty or your boyfriend like Tennant and Smith were'? Or how this happened when old badasses was in vogue in movies and TV (Stallone, Neeson, Willis, Ford etc.)? Almost every other article and interview wouldn't shut up about it.)
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,674
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Post by shutupbanks on Jun 9, 2018 0:51:08 GMT
I hope you're quoting other fans. Cause, I'm keeping all my Classic Who related stuff simply because I love that period. It is really stupid to sell any DW merchandise because you don't like the next Doctor. You know, I'm a big enough man to admit that thirddoctor has made a legitimately good point here that more of fandom could and should take to heart.
Plus, what message are you/do you think you're actually sending the Beeb by doing this? They have your money from your original purchase, what you do with the merch after is not their problem or concern. You sell a boatload of used DVDs or bath towels on Ebay? Makes zero difference to the Beeb's bottom line or decisions. It won't make them fire Jodie.
Agreed: I know I give third a bit of stick but they're bang on here.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jun 9, 2018 5:36:44 GMT
Never ever felt need to gender change.......and the abhorrent way it’s been handled I still wish we never had. She is defiantly the wrong person for the job, it gets worse with with every tiny reveal, and a secretly hoping that it all fails spectacularly For me it’s finished me going forward.......I have not intention to watch it onwards......cancellation would have been a easier pill to swallow. But the way some people have reacted to my dislike of the gender change has made me realise that fandom is no safe haven any longer or respecter of viewpoints. have got rid of 90% of my doctor who stuff from cookie jars to action figures......I am embarrassed to have been such a fanboy. Its opened me up to all the jokes and jibes that I suffered when I came out. Old wounds never really heal and the thing that I found comfort in last time is now the source of the hurt. I really do hope that all the casual viewer and equality band wagon jumpers that campaigned for this stick by it and make it the success........I remember listening to a certain celeb who thought is was brilliant, then when asked why she wanted the change said girl power....but asked if she watched it ....no, will you watch it now......no. But I still love big finish. Everything my buddy just said sums up how i feel, to me the Doctor should remain a male role model but nah i won't be tuning into the next season i couldn't give a toss about season 11, if that makes my opinion outdated so be it, they going with a female lead to apease the pc brigade & heaven forbid if one disagrees with that opinion, well i don't & have never wanted a female playing the Doctor & never will, another issue i have is when fandom tells one your wrong & must conform to a female Doctor, well save your breath you ain't going to change my mind on this topic, Big Finish will more than happily forfill my Doctor Who interests over the next few years. Series 11 has put a huge dent into my love for Doctor Who something this fan of over 40 yrs didn't think possible, i even stopped reading DWM but I'm not selling any of my stuff i just won't be adding any series 11 memorabilia. I look forward to the Buffy The Vampire Slayer reboot with Tom Holland as Buffy.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jun 9, 2018 7:06:13 GMT
Thankfully, they didn't listen to him. For someone against the idea you sure are talking about it a lot.. That's because I'm against it. Why would I stay silent at something I disagree with?
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Post by Whovitt on Jun 9, 2018 10:58:50 GMT
For someone against the idea you sure are talking about it a lot.. That's because I'm against it. Why would I stay silent at something I disagree with? Because simply disagreeing with it doesn't mean that you necessarily have to say so. It's well known that you are against the idea of a female Doctor, and as such it isn't necessary for you to keep saying so. This tends to lead to circular arguments that end up going nowhere. By not continuing, we needn't have to read the same players going through the same motions every time something to do with this topic crops up. (Disclaimer: I'm not trying to attack or offend here, I'm merely making an observation )
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jun 9, 2018 11:21:51 GMT
That's because I'm against it. Why would I stay silent at something I disagree with? Because simply disagreeing with it doesn't mean that you necessarily have to say so. It's well known that you are against the idea of a female Doctor, and as such it isn't necessary for you to keep saying so. This tends to lead to circular arguments that end up going nowhere. By not continuing, we needn't have to read the same players going through the same motions every time something to do with this topic crops up. (Disclaimer: I'm not trying to attack or offend here, I'm merely making an observation ) Not everyone on this forum knows who I feel. New members are always joining, and they may agree or disagree with me and others. You, for example, didn't have to reply, but you did.
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Post by Whovitt on Jun 9, 2018 11:26:37 GMT
Wow... talk about missing the point...
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,674
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Post by shutupbanks on Jun 9, 2018 11:57:22 GMT
For someone against the idea you sure are talking about it a lot.. That's because I'm against it. Why would I stay silent at something I disagree with? There's a lot of topics here that I have no interest in or find objectionable or lack knowledge or experience of. What I do is not take part in discussions about them because I can see that my opinion would be redundant there. If I felt strongly enough that I had to make my presence known I might - it could happen - chime in with something like, "Not really a fan of the series/ idea because (insert reason) but would love to know why you folks really love it."
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Post by rran on Jun 9, 2018 12:21:53 GMT
Wow, this thread is beginning to get pretty explosive. I too don’t like the idea of a female doctor, but I am no one to criticise or question those who do. It’s okay to disagree, let’s all gracefully respect each others’ viewpoint. Having a contrary opinion with someone doesn’t mean we have to argue with them
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jun 9, 2018 13:26:07 GMT
Wow... talk about missing the point... Then stop going on about it.
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Post by mark687 on Jun 9, 2018 13:50:46 GMT
Did I want or need a Female Doctor?
No but we've got one (and thankfully she's a better Actor than the 2 "Bookie's Favourites" are IMO)
Now the broader issue
"Fandom wanted it" or "Its time Who got with the times"
When did it start well not through Fandom. There were legitimate calls for Female Equality in all areas, the Acting profession and Production Companies have responded by calling for roles to be as non-gender specific as possible, so the BBC went "Ah shape changing alien we can make the Doctor a Women no problem and be On Message in the Industry".
Then the Backlash started and anyone who doesn't like it is seen as wrong and publicly called out as wrong.
So will I watch it? (Yes) Will I enjoy it (Hopefully) Do I think Millennial Social Commentary in general is being put before the simple enjoyment of the programme? (Slowly but surely yes).
Regards
mark687
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 9, 2018 14:00:28 GMT
Wow, this thread is beginning to get pretty explosive. I too don’t like the idea of a female doctor, but I am no one to criticise or question those who do. It’s okay to disagree, let’s all gracefully respect each others’ viewpoint. Having a contrary opinion with someone doesn’t mean we have to argue with them Barring some brief spats, this thread's actually been much tamer than I expected (not saying anything against anyone on here, this is just a touchy topic in fandom in general).
Like I said in my own brief sermon, fans are free to feel and engage with the franchise however he/she wants. That's his/her right as a fan and a consumer, and nobody can or should take that away.
What I take umbrage with is all the doomsaying.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 15:31:45 GMT
The Alt-Right and their ilk have been stirring things up in fandoms, taking advantage of the nature of the internet. You can't blame people for being wary. Those voices are there and there are bigger things in the world then Who that are driving people to be defensive about this. It's been a deliberate effort to create this divide, so we can't even have conversations like this. I do think the media has mischaracterised internet fandom, but yet again, they always tend to do that with internet fandom, anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 16:27:55 GMT
I'm not sure what Alt-Right is as it's not a term we use for politics over here, but generally once the mainstream take up a position on anything, anyone who disagrees with them gets branded with some insulting term. So in this 'female Doctor' discussion, people who didn't want a female Doctor got called sexist in a variety of places, simply because they dared to disagree with the majority! In life it is okay for people to have different opinions from another person, free speech works both ways. But at times the way the world and populist media have it everyone has to think the same and agree with what they believe is 'right'... if you don't then you're akin to some monster.
I don't see anyone stirring things up here, just people with different opinions on a variety of things, which I love to see. Discussing things is good as we are not sheep who have to blindly follow the herd. Internet forums would be very boring if everyone thought the same as everyone else.
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Post by pawntake on Jun 9, 2018 16:53:40 GMT
I always thought it was Control-Alt-Delete What do I know???
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Post by newt5996 on Jun 9, 2018 16:55:41 GMT
But in the 80's he did suggest to the BBC that they should consider casting a woman.. Yes. & I think it might have saved the show! No Michael Grade still would have had it canned after being put up against Corination Street as an excuse to slash the ratings and then can the show. And we wouldn’t have had Sylvester McCoy who’s my favorite so I’m already biased.
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