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Post by thethirddoctor on Jun 10, 2018 10:25:30 GMT
Might be a good thing if Doctor Who crashed and burned. Because from the ashes a Phoenix may rise. Cheers for that, Conchita, but I’d rather still have my favourite TV show on air. Probably wouldn't take too long to fix. Fans accepted a year and a half between series 4 and 5, a gap between series 7, and a gap of 1 1/2 years between series 9 and 10.
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Post by jasonward on Jun 10, 2018 11:54:23 GMT
I just don't see there was a "need", not from the perspective of story telling, not from the perspective show promotion/future. And I didn't notice fans or fandom clamouring for a female Doctor, indeed all those I saw saying it was a good idea were coming from a political stand point, they wanted to promote the roles of women, to create a hero for girls. So whilst those political ideals are great, and any show, especially a sci-fi show will be a reflection of the times they are written in, it should be the story that drives what we see on screen. So the question "How long has there been a real need for a woman Doctor Who" is answered by never, it has never been a need. But don't take that to mean I'm saying The Doctor has a real need to be a man either, perhaps in times past it needed to be a man because that's what TV audiences wanted/expected, but today that's far more fluid. My current dislike of the situation we find ourselves in today is it appears to have nothing to do with telling a story, and everything about being fashionable. However well-intended, I feel you're being a tad reductive in dismissing it as wholly political. My response to was 'there a need?': look through all the cosplays, female and male, old and young, and all the fan art that's been piling up since Jodie's announcement, people who have no stake in the culture war. I'd say there was one. Something doesn't come from nothing, unless you're going to argue that those little girls dressing as Jodie that have done the rounds on reddit and social media are somehow being paid off by the Beeb.
Reductive? Yes, and no. Sure gender representation in media and gender politics is a huge area for debate, study and certainly at the this time, change, indeed a movement if you will, and yes, I reduced it by calling it only "political". On the other hand, I felt this was perfectly acceptable when addressing the question, as I can't see how any of it shows a "need" that "needed" to impact Doctor Who in the way it has.
Your example only, maybe, demonstrates that those in the example had a need that was addressed by the gender change, but fails to demonstrate that Doctor Who needed this, it also ignores, since its just about impossible to quantify, all those that feel in some way excluded, but saying Doctor Who "needed" the gender change on that basis alone is to somehow make the decision that their need is stronger, better more than those that have been excluded.
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Post by fantasticalice on Jun 10, 2018 14:40:21 GMT
With respect, Person, is that any different to producers and directors only really looking for a particular "type" when casting for a film? To me, when a producer says something like, "We had X in mind when we wrote this, but we settled for Y because they bring a similar presence to the role" or "We wanted a Z-type of actor, but Y ticked a lot of those boxes for us." Also, when JNT specifically pursued Colin Baker as a successor to Peter Davison in the role or, indeed, Davison himself, should he have - ethically - looked at other actors, just to be fair to them? i will say this: changing genders doesn't bother me as much as when the character changes their accent. I can get face, height (maybe) and (possibly) hair colour as a consequence of the genetic rewriting wrought by regeneration, but accent? And, really, it doesn't bother me that much. Lots of Big Finish writers say they wrote a role with a particular actor's voice in their head, and that person was cast independent of this. Most of the Doctor's regenerations have taken place in the TARDIS, and it's well established he's got a telepathic link to the old girl, treating her more like a person than a machine. The change from the First Doctor to the Second explicitly needed the TARDIS to facilitate it. Maybe when this happens the TARDIS throws something into mix that produces the new face and personality of the Doctor, a response to recent or significant circumstances. The Sixth Doctor could have been thinking of Jamie (the comics and audios show the Sixth Doctor and Jamie encountering each other again), and that's why he's Scottish. Trying to be more proactive in dealing with enemies, the scheming nature of the Seventh Doctor. In fact, maybe the Doctor does have a degree of influence over his regenerated form and new personality. The Third Doctor wanted to mooch around the universe, exactly the personality Tom brought to the role of the Fourth Doctor. At the end the Fourth Doctor was around younger people, maybe this influenced how young the Fifth Doctor looked. The Fifth Doctor was usually ignored, who could ignore the Sixth Doctor? The Seventh Doctor could be tactical and clinical, the Eighth Doctor just loved life and what he could see of the universe. My personal headcanon is as War peacefully began to regenerate he thought of many of his past companions. He started to think of family and fighting Daleks and found himself thinking of a young Northern girl who insisted on saving the world from the Daleks it's almost as if he can hear her voice in his head... Oh... that's his voice then.
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Post by mrperson on Jun 10, 2018 16:49:18 GMT
I can only hope that Chinball can ignore the fact that he specifically sought out a female and only a female replacement, writing instead for simply "the Doctor". I am rather worried about her being cast as a walking political statement. We'll see.
With respect, Person, is that any different to producers and directors only really looking for a particular "type" when casting for a film? To me, when a producer says something like, "We had X in mind when we wrote this, but we settled for Y because they bring a similar presence to the role" or "We wanted a Z-type of actor, but Y ticked a lot of those boxes for us." Also, when JNT specifically pursued Colin Baker as a successor to Peter Davison in the role or, indeed, Davison himself, should he have - ethically - looked at other actors, just to be fair to them? i will say this: changing genders doesn't bother me as much as when the character changes their accent. I can get face, height (maybe) and (possibly) hair colour as a consequence of the genetic rewriting wrought by regeneration, but accent? And, really, it doesn't bother me that much. Not necessarily the same, though. From what I recall of his statements, he didn't say he wanted a certain sex actor/actress because of the way he wanted to write the stories. Instead he said 13 was "always" going to be female (ie, since he was named successor).
It just seems so artificial and unnecessary to me. But like I said, what's done is done. We'll see how things go...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 2:09:02 GMT
With respect, Person, is that any different to producers and directors only really looking for a particular "type" when casting for a film? To me, when a producer says something like, "We had X in mind when we wrote this, but we settled for Y because they bring a similar presence to the role" or "We wanted a Z-type of actor, but Y ticked a lot of those boxes for us." Also, when JNT specifically pursued Colin Baker as a successor to Peter Davison in the role or, indeed, Davison himself, should he have - ethically - looked at other actors, just to be fair to them? i will say this: changing genders doesn't bother me as much as when the character changes their accent. I can get face, height (maybe) and (possibly) hair colour as a consequence of the genetic rewriting wrought by regeneration, but accent? And, really, it doesn't bother me that much. Not necessarily the same, though. From what I recall of his statements, he didn't say he wanted a certain sex actor/actress because of the way he wanted to write the stories. Instead he said 13 was "always" going to be female (ie, since he was named successor).
It just seems so artificial and unnecessary to me. But like I said, what's done is done. We'll see how things go... I'm quietly optimistic. The series has always managed to make every incarnation appealing in at least some respect. Like, for me, the two Doctors that tend to end up on the lower echelon (purely by happenstance more often than not) are Five and Eleven and it's really hard for me to throw any genuine criticism at either of them. They're great -- va bene to Vincent and the Doctor and The Snowmen; Five on audio has some of my favourite stories -- they just tend to be a little too straightforward for my tastes. Lawful Good has its place, but Chaotic Good is more interesting to watch, at least for me personally. I enjoy a little unpredictability in my protagonists. Other people love Five and Eleven, and that's fine too. Whatever else happens... This should be a very interesting ride. I hope it sticks the landing. While I'm generally indifferent about the change, I genuinely hope the show succeeds regardless.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 5:57:06 GMT
Not necessarily the same, though. From what I recall of his statements, he didn't say he wanted a certain sex actor/actress because of the way he wanted to write the stories. Instead he said 13 was "always" going to be female (ie, since he was named successor).
It just seems so artificial and unnecessary to me. But like I said, what's done is done. We'll see how things go... I'm quietly optimistic. The series has always managed to make every incarnation appealing in at least some respect. Like, for me, the two Doctors that tend to end up on the lower echelon (purely by happenstance more often than not) are Five and Eleven and it's really hard for me to throw any genuine criticism at either of them. They're great -- va bene to Vincent and the Doctor and The Snowmen; Five on audio has some of my favourite stories -- they just tend to be a little too straightforward for my tastes. Lawful Good has its place, but Chaotic Good is more interesting to watch, at least for me personally. I enjoy a little unpredictability in my protagonists. Other people love Five and Eleven, and that's fine too. Whatever else happens... This should be a very interesting ride. I hope it sticks the landing. While I'm generally indifferent about the change, I genuinely hope the show succeeds regardless.
There's a definite air of confidience. The Tom Baker Blu-Ray artwork, the new cinematic Big Finish covers, etc I think a lot of players with Doctor Who are VERY confident in the relaunch.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jun 11, 2018 18:55:03 GMT
I'm quietly optimistic. The series has always managed to make every incarnation appealing in at least some respect. Like, for me, the two Doctors that tend to end up on the lower echelon (purely by happenstance more often than not) are Five and Eleven and it's really hard for me to throw any genuine criticism at either of them. They're great -- va bene to Vincent and the Doctor and The Snowmen; Five on audio has some of my favourite stories -- they just tend to be a little too straightforward for my tastes. Lawful Good has its place, but Chaotic Good is more interesting to watch, at least for me personally. I enjoy a little unpredictability in my protagonists. Other people love Five and Eleven, and that's fine too. Whatever else happens... This should be a very interesting ride. I hope it sticks the landing. While I'm generally indifferent about the change, I genuinely hope the show succeeds regardless.
There's a definite air of confidience. The Tom Baker Blu-Ray artwork, the new cinematic Big Finish covers, etc I think a lot of players with Doctor Who are VERY confident in the relaunch.
Confidence? Really? The Bluray boxset has been delayed for a second time.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jun 11, 2018 19:05:48 GMT
And we know the two are connected how exactly?
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 11, 2018 19:47:49 GMT
There's a definite air of confidience. The Tom Baker Blu-Ray artwork, the new cinematic Big Finish covers, etc I think a lot of players with Doctor Who are VERY confident in the relaunch.
Confidence? Really? The Bluray boxset has been delayed for a second time. Which has what to do with the shooting and editing of S11? What does Chibnall have to do with the manufacture of blu ray disks? Does the British public know, much less care, that a blu-ray release of an old TV show is being delayed? In what way does this bear on S11's marketing, the 'New Dawn' initiative or the five year plan?
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jun 11, 2018 20:29:19 GMT
Confidence? Really? The Bluray boxset has been delayed for a second time. Which has what to do with the shooting and editing of S11? What does Chibnall have to do with the manufacture of blu ray disks? Does the British public know, much less care, that a blu-ray release of an old TV show is being delayed? In what way does this bear on S11's marketing, the 'New Dawn' initiative or the five year plan?
Exactly. I have also preordered Albert Brooks' Modern Romance, which was initially due for a June 18th release and that was pushed back a week. Along with the Tom Baker box set, is that delay also wrapped up with the launch of series 11? It is like your search to always have something negative to say or imply about modern Who really is hitting the bottom of the barrel and grasping at imaginary straws.
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Post by sherlock on Jun 11, 2018 21:44:45 GMT
There's a definite air of confidience. The Tom Baker Blu-Ray artwork, the new cinematic Big Finish covers, etc I think a lot of players with Doctor Who are VERY confident in the relaunch.
Confidence? Really? The Bluray boxset has been delayed for a second time. The Doctor Who brand is being pushed to an extent unseen since the 50th. (Almost) entire classic series is being broadcast on Twitch, entire new series put on iPlayer. These are major iniatives aimed at expanding the brand. The BBC would not do this unless it was confident in Who's longevity, which means confidence in Chibnall's coming series. A delay in a blu-ray release is hardly a portent of doom.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jun 12, 2018 18:32:51 GMT
Confidence? Really? The Bluray boxset has been delayed for a second time. Which has what to do with the shooting and editing of S11? What does Chibnall have to do with the manufacture of blu ray disks? Does the British public know, much less care, that a blu-ray release of an old TV show is being delayed? In what way does this bear on S11's marketing, the 'New Dawn' initiative or the five year plan?
Didn't say it had anything to do with the shooting and editing of S11. But, the artwork for the box set (with the new logo) was mentioned in conversation.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 12, 2018 19:11:35 GMT
Which has what to do with the shooting and editing of S11? What does Chibnall have to do with the manufacture of blu ray disks? Does the British public know, much less care, that a blu-ray release of an old TV show is being delayed? In what way does this bear on S11's marketing, the 'New Dawn' initiative or the five year plan?
Didn't say it had anything to do with the shooting and editing of S11. But, the artwork for the box set (with the new logo) was mentioned in conversation. But you tried to tie it into the broader marketing and PR by questioning the 'confidence'.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jun 12, 2018 19:40:16 GMT
Didn't say it had anything to do with the shooting and editing of S11. But, the artwork for the box set (with the new logo) was mentioned in conversation. But you tried to tie it into the broader marketing and PR by questioning the 'confidence'. Of course he did.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2018 21:41:50 GMT
To qnswer the question, i havent needed a doctor thats a female nor have i really wanted one but when she was annouced i was very excited because its a new concept and im excited to see how it plays out.
I wasnt going to reply to this but i really dont see how anyone can have a problem with a female doctor. Least of all here, a big finish forum. As in big finish, the company that solely produces stories of the first twelve doctors. The first twelve male ones with penii (correct plural, i checked) you have boxets and new releases every month. If you are really adversed to a female doctor then does it matter? You still have doctor who. I mean, i reackon the majority of people who dislike the idea of a female doctor dont like the new series all that much anyway (a generalisation i know) so all series 11 and hopefully 12 & 13 and how many series Jodie stays on, all they will be are another bad bunch of series' in addition to the other ten.
I just think it sounds ungrateful when you dont need televised doctor who to still enjoy it. Some fans both hardcore and casual who dont like audio drama or as i said, are a casual viewer - they may have lost their favorite tv show. I think thats sadder than hating a series you would have probably have hated just as much if it were kris marshal or any other man.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jun 12, 2018 21:49:07 GMT
Didn't say it had anything to do with the shooting and editing of S11. But, the artwork for the box set (with the new logo) was mentioned in conversation. But you tried to tie it into the broader marketing and PR by questioning the 'confidence'. Yes. I did.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jun 12, 2018 21:51:50 GMT
But you tried to tie it into the broader marketing and PR by questioning the 'confidence'. Of course he did. Old stuff being rebranded doesn't fill me with 'confidence' The Genesis of the Daleks US poster has the new logo, as does the blu-ray release. The same can be said for all the Big Finish Classic Doctors merchandise.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2018 22:11:21 GMT
Old stuff being rebranded doesn't fill me with 'confidence' The Genesis of the Daleks US poster has the new logo, as does the blu-ray release. The same can be said for all the Big Finish Classic Doctors merchandise. Yes. Because that is the logo of the show now & makes perfect sense to retain that branding for all products. Not sure what this has to do with the OP though...
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Post by mark687 on Jun 12, 2018 22:55:10 GMT
Old stuff being rebranded doesn't fill me with 'confidence' The Genesis of the Daleks US poster has the new logo, as does the blu-ray release. The same can be said for all the Big Finish Classic Doctors merchandise.
So New logo means less confidence in Series overall (including BF stuff)
And your on this Forum then because?
Regards
mark687
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jun 14, 2018 10:31:00 GMT
Old stuff being rebranded doesn't fill me with 'confidence' The Genesis of the Daleks US poster has the new logo, as does the blu-ray release. The same can be said for all the Big Finish Classic Doctors merchandise.
So New logo means less confidence in Series overall (including BF stuff)
And your on this Forum then because?
Regards
mark687
Because I have a voice. You may not like what I say, but you don't always have to respond to it.
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