lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Oct 25, 2018 9:09:23 GMT
Well, they have the Time War series for putting the Doctor through the wringer... although, as a small criticism to the last Time War set, the Doctor hestiating and not risking a life, although it would have been the sensible thing to do, really broke my immerson, because it was so contrived and not believable. The 8th Doctor at that point in time surrounded by such high stakes should really behave differently.
It made no sense for me.
I did not listen to the War Doctor sets yet, but I heard that a common citizism is that the Doctor behaves like business as usual and not different at all. I understand that they could not make him more evil because of some contract or another... but what a massive missed opportunity, plus missing the point entirely. This is one of the reasons I have so far kept away from the War Doctor. On the other hand, if they had him more like the torturing a$$hole from Caerdroia with the scheming of the 7th Doctor mixed in, that would have been something else! And Big Finish has proven they can write evil very well with the War Master.
And it is in no way idiotic to prefer Liv to live.... In all honesty, I think the War Doctor can’t be evil otherwise he would be permanently disowned by his later regenerations (he isn’t - they’re happy with him the moment he doesn’t use the, ah, moment). To me, the whole point of the incarnation is that he is the Doctor - just in unmanageable situations. I think the drink he was given by the Sisters of Karn is likely a placebo. Personally I see the War Dr as the Jack Bauer incarnation, a basically good guy who is forced by the pressure of circumstances into taking some very difficult "end justifies the means" decisions to do terrible things, because any alternate decision would potentially be worse. Normally, when faced with this situation outside of the time war, the series' standard trope is that the Dr stalls for time and something else turns up. The time war is the time when nothing else turned up and the Dr really does run out of options.
So I guess the time war is the doctor's kobayashi maru and he needs to be the war doctor to get through it (no Spock to save the ship in the whoniverse).
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,819
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Post by lidar2 on Oct 25, 2018 9:10:39 GMT
In "Better watch out" Anyone spot "The Sound of Music" reference? {Spoiler} The Doctor says when describing the coming of the Krampus and his imps "The Hills Are Alive" he drops another one about Maria also 😂 I kind of wondered about that as Helen is from 1963 and the film came out in 1965, but then I suppose she could have seen the Broadway musical the film was based on.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 25, 2018 10:16:20 GMT
And it is in no way idiotic to prefer Liv to live.... In all honesty, I think the War Doctor can’t be evil otherwise he would be permanently disowned by his later regenerations (he isn’t - they’re happy with him the moment he doesn’t use the, ah, moment). To me, the whole point of the incarnation is that he is the Doctor - just in unmanageable situations. I think the drink he was given by the Sisters of Karn is likely a placebo. Well, agreed, I would not want him to be totally evil. We have that in the War Master release and I admit that was too much for me (I am a very sensitive person).
I only am a bit disappointed that the War Doctor is so nice... he could be a bit more of a d*ck (like the 10th is sometimes on a bad day). A bit more like the nasty part of the Doctor in Caerdroia, who was still worried and caring for Charley underneath all the nastiness. At least this is what I would have expected... after all he is, for a long time, the Doctors dark secret. I just personally thought when we finally see the War Doctor, he is a bit anticlimatic.
And yes, I also believe that concoction was a placebo- also presented as such in Moffats amazing "Day of the Doctor" book.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 25, 2018 10:17:00 GMT
In all honesty, I think the War Doctor can’t be evil otherwise he would be permanently disowned by his later regenerations (he isn’t - they’re happy with him the moment he doesn’t use the, ah, moment). To me, the whole point of the incarnation is that he is the Doctor - just in unmanageable situations. I think the drink he was given by the Sisters of Karn is likely a placebo. Personally I see the War Dr as the Jack Bauer incarnation, a basically good guy who is forced by the pressure of circumstances into taking some very difficult "end justifies the means" decisions to do terrible things, because any alternate decision would potentially be worse. Normally, when faced with this situation outside of the time war, the series' standard trope is that the Dr stalls for time and something else turns up. The time war is the time when nothing else turned up and the Dr really does run out of options.
So I guess the time war is the doctor's kobayashi maru and he needs to be the war doctor to get through it (no Spock to save the ship in the whoniverse).
Very well made point. Agreed!
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Post by fingersmash on Oct 25, 2018 17:13:54 GMT
Escape from Kaldor wasn't the best in my mind but damn everything else is some of the best of the best from Big Finish.
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Post by mrperson on Oct 30, 2018 0:07:43 GMT
They did put 8 through some things, and Liv is great, but....
On the other hand: how much has to build up to push him to War (not that the War Doctor did anything heinous......other than at the last end).
I'd still prefer Liv to live anyway. (I felt idiotic typing that....)
Well, they have the Time War series for putting the Doctor through the wringer... although, as a small criticism to the last Time War set, the Doctor hestiating and not risking a life, although it would have been the sensible thing to do, really broke my immerson, because it was so contrived and not believable. The 8th Doctor at that point in time surrounded by such high stakes should really behave differently.
It made no sense for me.
I did not listen to the War Doctor sets yet, but I heard that a common citizism is that the Doctor behaves like business as usual and not different at all. I understand that they could not make him more evil because of some contract or another... but what a massive missed opportunity, plus missing the point entirely. This is one of the reasons I have so far kept away from the War Doctor. On the other hand, if they had him more like the torturing a$$hole from Caerdroia with the scheming of the 7th Doctor mixed in, that would have been something else! And Big Finish has proven they can write evil very well with the War Master.
And it is in no way idiotic to prefer Liv to live....
I enjoy the War Doctor very much, but the criticism is correct. He's still the Doctor in every way that matters. The new series made it sound like he had done many horrible things.
Still, I'm deeply grateful that Hurt did the episodes he managed. Who knows what BF had planned for the potential future?
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Post by kinghumble on Oct 30, 2018 18:49:33 GMT
In all honesty, I think the War Doctor can’t be evil otherwise he would be permanently disowned by his later regenerations (he isn’t - they’re happy with him the moment he doesn’t use the, ah, moment). To me, the whole point of the incarnation is that he is the Doctor - just in unmanageable situations. I think the drink he was given by the Sisters of Karn is likely a placebo. Well, agreed, I would not want him to be totally evil. We have that in the War Master release and I admit that was too much for me (I am a very sensitive person).
I only am a bit disappointed that the War Doctor is so nice... he could be a bit more of a d*ck (like the 10th is sometimes on a bad day). A bit more like the nasty part of the Doctor in Caerdroia, who was still worried and caring for Charley underneath all the nastiness. At least this is what I would have expected... after all he is, for a long time, the Doctors dark secret. I just personally thought when we finally see the War Doctor, he is a bit anticlimatic.
And yes, I also believe that concoction was a placebo- also presented as such in Moffats amazing "Day of the Doctor" book.
Well to be fair to Big Finish there were certainly moments in his series where he was quite rude and dismissive towards other characters, meeting my definition of a d*ck - but your mileage will vary as to how "dark" that makes him, and I could see why you may still find even Big Finish's work with him anticlimactic. Certainly we generally see him go out of his way to save lives rather than sacrifice pawns, so I doubt he'd meet your expectations.
But I'd still recommend the War Doctor sets just for the ideas they explored for how the Time War would be waged, which indeed became quite dark; my favourite episode for that being The Neverwhen
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 30, 2018 20:37:41 GMT
Well to be fair to Big Finish there were certainly moments in his series where he was quite rude and dismissive towards other characters, meeting my definition of a d*ck - but your mileage will vary as to how "dark" that makes him, and I could see why you may still find even Big Finish's work with him anticlimactic. Certainly we generally see him go out of his way to save lives rather than sacrifice pawns, so I doubt he'd meet your expectations.
But I'd still recommend the War Doctor sets just for the ideas they explored for how the Time War would be waged, which indeed became quite dark; my favourite episode for that being The Neverwhen
Thank you for the recommendation. I know, sooner or later I will get these sets (maybe when they are next on sale?)... and who knows, I might very well enjoy them. I know myself. And as I said, since I am a very sensitive person, I cannot deal well with very evil and dark. The War Master set was already too much for me. So, yeah, there is a good chance I like the War Doctor sets and cancel out my premetitated opinion.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 7:39:38 GMT
Well to be fair to Big Finish there were certainly moments in his series where he was quite rude and dismissive towards other characters, meeting my definition of a d*ck - but your mileage will vary as to how "dark" that makes him, and I could see why you may still find even Big Finish's work with him anticlimactic. Certainly we generally see him go out of his way to save lives rather than sacrifice pawns, so I doubt he'd meet your expectations.
But I'd still recommend the War Doctor sets just for the ideas they explored for how the Time War would be waged, which indeed became quite dark; my favourite episode for that being The Neverwhen
Thank you for the recommendation. I know, sooner or later I will get these sets (maybe when they are next on sale?)... and who knows, I might very well enjoy them. I know myself. And as I said, since I am a very sensitive person, I cannot deal well with very evil and dark. The War Master set was already too much for me. So, yeah, there is a good chance I like the War Doctor sets and cancel out my premetitated opinion.
The War Doctor sets aren’t in anyway like the War Master there is no IMO character change in the Doctor that is patently NOT the Doctor.But they are enjoyable just not the earth shattering change of character i was actually expecting from the sets,who knows if John Hurt had continued(RIP) would that have changed i do not think so.But the Time War is a kind of boring storyline to me and none of the sets dealing with it spark me up excitedly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 7:43:55 GMT
I have been playing Escape from Kaldor again this morning and it really is a great story the bonding between Liv and Helen even the sitting down to a meal together.The further exposition of Kaldor Society and Livs sister.The mentioning of the Doctors previous encounters with Kaldor society.It is quite a gripping wee tale with plenty of action thrills and spills and an intriguing finale still.Plus theres also a chance for future Helen and Doctor single adventures without Liv.Top Tale...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 8:25:09 GMT
After listening to Kaldor am having a self bet that Liv Chenka is about to have a stand alone box set of her own delving into what happened on Kaldor.Espionage intrigue drama right up Nicolas acting street. Any Takers ??
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 31, 2018 8:35:13 GMT
After listening to Kaldor am having a self bet that Liv Chenka is about to have a stand alone box set of her own delving into what happened on Kaldor.Espionage intrigue drama right up Nicolas acting street. Any Takers ?? I am all in. Liv Chenka is one of my favorite Big Finish characters.
But I think she really needs a positive character next to her, like the Doctor, to even out her sarcasm and cynisism. I think this is why she works so well with the 8th Doctor.
Otherwise we would just be listening to a person like me b*tching about her day at work. So, I am not sure if she would quite work on her own.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 8:41:30 GMT
After listening to Kaldor am having a self bet that Liv Chenka is about to have a stand alone box set of her own delving into what happened on Kaldor.Espionage intrigue drama right up Nicolas acting street. Any Takers ?? I am all in. Liv Chenka is one of my favorite Big Finish characters.
But I think she really needs a positive character next to her, like the Doctor, to even out her sarcasm and cynisism. I think this is why she works so well with the 8th Doctor.
Otherwise we would just be listening to a person like me b*tching about her day at work. So, I am not sure if she would quite work on her own.
no I personally would listen- she has her sister and Kaldor society to bounce off strong characters and I would rather see what occurred than go straight to an episode post Nicolas interference-it could be two episodes of Nicola on her own and two episodes of Helen and The Doctors independent travels
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 8:53:05 GMT
After listening to Kaldor am having a self bet that Liv Chenka is about to have a stand alone box set of her own delving into what happened on Kaldor.Espionage intrigue drama right up Nicolas acting street. Any Takers ?? I am all in. Liv Chenka is one of my favorite Big Finish characters.
But I think she really needs a positive character next to her, like the Doctor, to even out her sarcasm and cynisism. I think this is why she works so well with the 8th Doctor.
Otherwise we would just be listening to a person like me b*tching about her day at work. So, I am not sure if she would quite work on her own.
I guess with me living alone....the option of bitching about my work all day doesn’t occur 😂 and am glad.Oh those four lonely walls.Bloody love them after hearing everyone else including myself bitch and moan all day lol it’s nice to go back to silence...well apart from the Tv or audio
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Post by Ian McArdell on Nov 1, 2018 10:38:14 GMT
My take on Ravenous 2 is now up at Cultbox... In thought this was a pretty fantastic release, especially the festive two-parter - definitely one for an advent re-listen. The Eighth, Liv and Helen are such a superb team, aren't they?
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 1, 2018 11:06:40 GMT
My take on Ravenous 2 is now up at Cultbox... In thought this was a pretty fantastic release, especially the festive two-parter - definitely one for an advent re-listen. The Eighth, Liv and Helen are such a superb team, aren't they? Only the very best IMHO.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Nov 3, 2018 21:34:46 GMT
I finally finished up the set by listening to episode 4, Seizure. I very much enjoyed episodes 1 & 4 and had mixed feelings about the Krampus two-parter. Still, 8, Liv & Helen are a great, great team and any time spent with this trio is well spent.
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Post by drj on Nov 3, 2018 22:59:59 GMT
Actually I know what you mean about the Krampus two parter. I think though I was feeling a bit flat when I listened to it. On reading everyone else raving about it, I promptly listened to it again and actualy enjoyed it a lot more the second time. Funny old world!
Ravenous is going really well so far. I think I’m with just about with everyone else in thinking that Eight, Liv and Helen are a brilliant team. Here’s hoping for many more adventures with them!
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Post by nottenst on Nov 8, 2018 16:11:41 GMT
Finished listening to all but the BTS disc yesterday. With the Krampus story, I am surprised it came out in October. I would have thought a late November release would have been more appropriate.
In any case, I enjoyed it, even though it ended on a cliffhanger. After three non-Ravenous parts we finally get Ravenous and then are stuck on a cliff. From the early news about the next release it looks like it will definitely live up to the series title.
The two-part Krampus story was interesting in the stories within the story technique of multiple narrations. It made it a bit confusing, but in the end it all held together. I was wondering whether the Doctor had plucked a young Shafranek out of time to tell him the story (a la A Christmas Carol ep), though the more the story went on the more I realized that couldn't be the case. I'm glad it turned out as it did.
I was wondering about the Eleven absconding with the TARDIS. I guess part of that is set up by Helen saving the day with TARDIS (no isomorphic controls in place). Still, with the TARDIS having a mind of its own, I wonder if the Eleven will find his way back to The Doctor "by accident."
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Post by nottenst on Nov 8, 2018 16:38:45 GMT
After listening to Kaldor am having a self bet that Liv Chenka is about to have a stand alone box set of her own delving into what happened on Kaldor. Espionage intrigue drama right up Nicolas acting street. Any Takers ?? From what I've heard so far in the Behind the Scenes, it seems very likely to be the case.
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