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Post by mark687 on Nov 29, 2015 21:19:49 GMT
Heard it this morning good job I eagerly await next weeks.
Regards
mark687
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Post by constonks on Nov 30, 2015 1:26:07 GMT
I was actually spoiled by Big Finish cause I'm a prat and thought it was a good idea to click the Series 9 Saturday offer, expecting vague spoiler-free stuff not "the Doctor's slow journey home" - but then again I was aware there was a "big setting spoiler" out there for finale, and what other setting would be a major spoiler? Ah well, next week, I'm not clicking anything until I get to watch the episode.
Also, this episode was incredible. That final montage of billions of years of Doctors dying and reliving the loop was fantastic.
Personally I've liked each story of this series more than the previous one with the sole exception of Sleep No More, which was not bad - it was something different and an interesting 45 minutes spent - but probably just below the opening duo of episodes IMO.
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Post by Hieronymus on Nov 30, 2015 4:05:47 GMT
Gallifrey was spoiled for me. As an American who doesn't have BBC America, I watch through iTunes. And the new episode isn't available for download until after 1am local time, so I download Sunday morning. This morning, BBC America posted a huge reveal photo on their facebook page. Gee, Thanks.
This also felt more like a episode of Sherlock than Who, especially with the whole mind-palace-cum-TARDIS motif.
It started off really good, it had a nice concept in it and some fine acting from Capaldi. It was also easily one of the best shot episodes of the new series. But somehow it still fell a little short for me.
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Post by gban007 on Nov 30, 2015 5:52:08 GMT
I enjoyed it, another good episode. One point slightly unsure on though, was the Doctor suggesting that even before he left Gallifrey, there were legends / fore-tellings about a half Dalek / half Time Lord hybrid, but my understanding is that the Time Lords had no real knowledge of the Daleks before the First Doctor's encounters with them. I could have misunderstood his point though. The legend was about a hybrid. Davros said it was half-dalek, hence the doctor saying "he was wrong" rather than "they were wrong" Ah, that makes sense
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Post by gban007 on Nov 30, 2015 5:57:35 GMT
I dunno... Remember the Death Zone in The Five Doctors and the Doctor talking about how neither the Daleks nor the Cybermen were called to participate at the behest of the Dark Time Gallifreyans because they played the Game too well? Extrapolating from that, it seems likely that the Time Lords (or their forebears) would have had knowledge of the Dalek race prior to his first meeting with them on Skaro. They may have been considered one of a myriad of threats back then rather than a significant adversary capable of threatening their seat of power though (viz. The Daleks as the third power in the war with the Great Vampire much like the Balkans to the USSR in the 1960s). Yeah I do remember that one, one of those instances where the continuity doesn't seem to match up, thought it can be hard to determine where the Daleks especially and the Cybermen to an extent fit in with the Gallifrey timeline - it is possible the Time Lords (or forebears) for the Dark Time happily pulled creatures from the future, but seems to be potentially playing with the web of time a bit much there, as I got impression that the Daleks weren't around during the Dark Time. I'm not sure if I've seen where the Time Lords sit relative to Earth, but the Daleks are generally from Earth's future, while the Dark Time seemed to be in Earth's past.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 7:45:26 GMT
I dunno... Remember the Death Zone in The Five Doctors and the Doctor talking about how neither the Daleks nor the Cybermen were called to participate at the behest of the Dark Time Gallifreyans because they played the Game too well? Extrapolating from that, it seems likely that the Time Lords (or their forebears) would have had knowledge of the Dalek race prior to his first meeting with them on Skaro. They may have been considered one of a myriad of threats back then rather than a significant adversary capable of threatening their seat of power though (viz. The Daleks as the third power in the war with the Great Vampire much like the Balkans to the USSR in the 1960s). Yeah I do remember that one, one of those instances where the continuity doesn't seem to match up, thought it can be hard to determine where the Daleks especially and the Cybermen to an extent fit in with the Gallifrey timeline - it is possible the Time Lords (or forebears) for the Dark Time happily pulled creatures from the future, but seems to be potentially playing with the web of time a bit much there, as I got impression that the Daleks weren't around during the Dark Time. I'm not sure if I've seen where the Time Lords sit relative to Earth, but the Daleks are generally from Earth's future, while the Dark Time seemed to be in Earth's past. Hmm... Well, the Dark Times (as exposited by the Virgin writers) were said to be a time that existed almost immediately prior to the Intuitive Revolution that banished the Pythia and kicked off the Rassilon era. Therefore any notion of the Web of Time or even the Laws of Time may have been in their infancy. Their non-interference directive certainly didn't exist back then because the war with a species you could liken to a living cancer called the Yssgaroth (and their infected thralls which later went on to become vampires) hasn't happened yet at this stage. So, their decision to deposit species like the Daleks and the Cybermen into the Death Zone really isn't as out of character as it first seems. Considering this is Gallifrey during its nascency before the Time Lord elite and their establishment of protocols, they most likely had heard stories of these adversarial creatures from their outer colonies and while the Gallifreyans themselves don't have time travel technology yet, the Daleks do. It's possible that a scientific or military task force dispatched from the future Dalek Empire decided (or more likely were forced after some catastrophic malfunction) to survey the distant past of the universe and were transmatted into the arena as combatants.
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Post by redsharkJason on Nov 30, 2015 8:17:58 GMT
JESUS CHRIST, MOFFATT. A more articulate review will follow, BUT BLOODY HELL, MAN. THAT WAS NOT OKAY. I'm on tenterhooks for a more articulate review.
In what way?
Regards
mark687
I'm guessing that Michael being a staunch supporter of Doctor Who being a children's program fueled his initial comments of disapproval regarding Heaven Sent? I personally loved this episode for pushing the boundaries and for it not being overly adolescent. Could I argue that it was children friendly entertainment, probably not?
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Nov 30, 2015 9:53:04 GMT
I loved it to pieces. There were holes and weaknesses, but it was the most astonishing episode with what it set out to do in years. That reveal, when we saw his hands, when we realised who had set the teleporter, was incredible, and the clues were there for all to see. I even liked the mind palace because it's an idea and motif that has cropped up in so many stories over the years and it's one that I love the hell out of.
This season has turned me into a proper fan again, not just a person who watches it because it's usually okay and I loved it as a kid. It's a great show again, that dares to keep you on your toes nearly every episode rather than just a couple times a season for Hugo-bait.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Nov 30, 2015 13:05:29 GMT
When is a single hander not a single hander? When its Doctor Who lol. Liked that they gave Clara, an Amy moment with her goodbye. I was completely shocked by the Sea of Skulls and the fact they were all the Doctor. The confession Dial confused me, but the fact that Ashildir is in the finale may explain it..
Also was that city the Citadel or another one? because the Citadel when its appeared before has been surrounded by mountains, not Desert.
also the hybrid could be more War Doctor than anyone, since he was a hybrid of the most Peaceful side and Warrior side of the Doctor due to the Time War.
and i agree with everyone the 8th Doctor would have been able to pull this episode off as well
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Post by mrperson on Nov 30, 2015 14:14:34 GMT
I too thought it was pretty darn good...but seemed to fall a bit short. A few things immediately grated on me:
1. The Doctor saying specifically "God. Oh my God." This has always been a secular show and he's always been rigidly secular a character. Just didn't seem right that that would be his line when scared.
2. The Doctor once again announces (repeatedly) to the audience that he is scared. You do not tell the audience, you show the audience. Same mistake was made in "Hide".
3. The score was too loud. Had to watch with captions on because I was missing entire sentences.
More generally.....
4. A problem the script overlooked: Each pass of the loop requires him to generate the energy to create a new body by destroying his old body. Yet, assuming each pass through the loop takes one week, he will have left 104,000,000,000 copies of his skull by the end. The average weight of a human skull is 2.2 pounds. So...where's the energy coming from to create the roughly two hundred billion pounds of skull he's managed to leave over the eons?
5. The hybrid arc never interested me(similar to the Doctor's name, or the Impossible Girl arcs). Ancient prophecy stuff doesn't really get my attention. But anyhow....
If "the hybrid is me/Me" wasn't a lie, then what sense does that make?
Me is a single puny human who is not invincible, but who has a chip that can repair typical battle injuries. (no indication that she could survive an atomic blast, for example). It took a universe-destroying war with the Daleks to bring Gallifrey to its knees the last time around. What could Me possibly do to destroy it?
And if the Doctor meant to refer to himself? Why would he "conquer Gallifrey and stand in its ruins"?
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Post by mrperson on Nov 30, 2015 14:35:33 GMT
I enjoyed it, it was very atmospheric, and well performed, but has left me a little puzzled. At the start of the series Missy had the confession dial, which presumably had his confession in it. The Doctor eventually gets it back, only to then hand it over to Ashildr who teleports him into a confession dial where he confesses that he is afraid to die, left Gallifrey because he was afraid and that he knows what the hybrid is. He eventually breaks out of the confession dial through a stronger-than-diamond wall, which failed to reset unlike the rest of the castle, and steps onto Gallifrey when he picks up the dial and tells it who the hybrid is. Okay, so, did Missy get the confession dial from the future after the doctor has been imprisoned in it for several billion years, and after episode 12? If she did, then what happened to the full one Ashildr took, and where did the empty one she teleported him into come from? If it wasn't from the future then what confession was in it, and how did it get to Gallifrey after Ashildr teleported him into it? Was the castle even inside the dial, or does it work as a gateway and there just happened to be one in the Gallifreyan desert? Will this all be answered next week? Am I overthinking all of this? My understanding of its provenance was: 1. Before S9, the Doctor hatches his rather daft plot to visit Skaro and cause some structural damage to one city. He gives his confession dial to the sisters of Karn, who then get the thing to Missy (somehow) at his request. Davros took it after taking them all prisoner. The Doctor took it back as the city was being structurally damaged. He gave it to Me on demand as Clara was having her extended death scene, and was teleported into the confession dial, which is either bigger on the inside or miniaturizes its contents. We definitely see the castle as being inside it. The dial is then presumably transported to Gallifrey by the Timelords (since Me is a human living in modern times), since the Doctor retrieves it after exiting the portal to Gallifrey. As to its contents.... It's unclear as to whether the description of these dials as being the last will and testament is a lie, and they are in fact perverse torture chambers which Timelords for some reason carry around for themselves. I don't know, to make sure they really confess fully on the eave of their death? Perhaps they're a race of masochists. That, or his dial was surreptitiously modified by the Timelords so that it functioned differently from other dials. As to the why.... The only thing that makes sense to me is that after giving the Doctor a regeneration cycle and closing the crack in Time of the Doctor, they managed to lose track of which universe they intended to return to. The confession dial then functioned like asking the Doctor to state his name: if he were to confess something that only he would know, they would know they had the right universe and could return. I suppose we'll see.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Nov 30, 2015 14:39:37 GMT
1. The Doctor saying specifically "God. Oh my God." This has always been a secular show and he's always been rigidly secular a character. Just didn't seem right that that would be his line when scared. We've started to hear the Doctor swear in English in Moffat's era - and remember the remark of Terry Pratchett, that (Mind you, we're not back to Max Vilmio-level of language. Yet. Depends what timeslot the show gets next year!)
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Post by nottenst on Nov 30, 2015 15:23:53 GMT
I was spoiled through the little episode info in the Dish Network guide that you see when selecting the program. It said "Trapped in a world unlike nay other he has seen, the Doctor faces the greatest challenge of his many lives; pursued by the fearsome creature known only as the Veil, he must attempt the impossible; if he makes it through, Gallifrey is waiting." I've no idea what I would have felt if I hadn't seen that last line, but I was anticipating "home" to be "Gallifrey" and not the TARDIS, which is what it seemed they wanted us to think.
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Post by icecreamdf on Nov 30, 2015 16:45:37 GMT
I was spoiled through the little episode info in the Dish Network guide that you see when selecting the program. It said "Trapped in a world unlike nay other he has seen, the Doctor faces the greatest challenge of his many lives; pursued by the fearsome creature known only as the Veil, he must attempt the impossible; if he makes it through, Gallifrey is waiting." I've no idea what I would have felt if I hadn't seen that last line, but I was anticipating "home" to be "Gallifrey" and not the TARDIS, which is what it seemed they wanted us to think. My TiVo said exactly the same thing.
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Post by seeley on Nov 30, 2015 17:00:28 GMT
1. The Doctor saying specifically "God. Oh my God." This has always been a secular show and he's always been rigidly secular a character. Just didn't seem right that that would be his line when scared. We've started to hear the Doctor swear in English in Moffat's era - and remember the remark of Terry Pratchett, that Not just Mofffat's era. I recall a rather odd "what the hell was that?" in Rise of the Cybermen. On a similar subject, one of the many ways in which the Nightshade adaptation will inevitably be different from the book will be the omission of the rather amusing bit with the Doctor swearing in Old High Gallifreyan.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Nov 30, 2015 17:12:24 GMT
But later New Adventures had even ruder language. Worse than "Destiny of the Daleks"; worse than Ian Marter's novelisation of "The Enemy of the World"; worse, even, than "The Ghosts of N-Space". And not just the several incidents where, as you say, the Doctor mutters something rude in a language nobody understands under his breath.
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Post by kfbate on Nov 30, 2015 18:15:10 GMT
Does anyone else after watching this episode every now and again I hear Tom Baker in the Doctor's voice just here and there. Or maybe it is just me. Then again I might be going slightly mad as my wife as caused a tinsel overdoes after decorating the tree.
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Tony Jones
Chancellery Guard
Professor Chronotis
Still rockin' along!
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Post by Tony Jones on Nov 30, 2015 18:41:45 GMT
Cavan Scott tweeted something similar about Tom
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 19:16:53 GMT
Does anyone else after watching this episode every now and again I hear Tom Baker in the Doctor's voice just here and there. Or maybe it is just me. Then again I might be going slightly mad as my wife as caused a tinsel overdoes after decorating the tree. Oh yes, absolutely.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 19:20:34 GMT
Also was that city the Citadel or another one? because the Citadel when its appeared before has been surrounded by mountains, not Desert. well we've seen tow Gallifreyan cities so far, the Capitol and Arcadia, and it isn't always clear which we're seeing. This one has a strange aet of buildings on top of the glass bubble that I don't recall seeing before, so it could be a third city.
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