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Post by paulmorris7777 on Dec 3, 2016 19:09:22 GMT
Who is in possession of the Confessional dial at the moment the Doctor is teleported into the Confessional dial? I'm guessing ME, who then transports it to Galifrey.
Regards
mark687
Yes, you are correct. According to Tardis wikia, the Doctor gave Major ME the confessional dial just before Claras death! So, how did it get to a Gallifrian desert?
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 3, 2016 20:46:41 GMT
I'm guessing ME, who then transports it to Galifrey.
Regards
mark687
Yes, you are correct. According to Tardis wikia, the Doctor gave Major ME the confessional dial just before Claras death! So, how did it get to a Gallifrian desert? She took it because the Time Lords told her to, so presumably she had it sent to Gallifrey. No idea why it was in the desert though.
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Post by mrperson on Dec 5, 2016 17:42:50 GMT
I'm guessing ME, who then transports it to Galifrey.
Regards
mark687
Yes, you are correct. According to Tardis wikia, the Doctor gave Major ME the confessional dial just before Claras death! So, how did it get to a Gallifrian desert? Gallifrey was already silently back, without apparent consequence. So someone popped on a time ring or hopped in a TARDIS (and didn't have to worry about Daleks detecting a TARDIS in the vortex, because apparently the Daleks just plain got bored with the whole Time War thing), picked it up from ME, and for some reason left it in the wilderness outside the capital. I'd say that out of all the gripes one can have with Hell Bent, the precise means by which the dial got to Gallifrey ranks rather low on the list.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Dec 5, 2016 18:51:05 GMT
Yes, you are correct. According to Tardis wikia, the Doctor gave Major ME the confessional dial just before Claras death! So, how did it get to a Gallifrian desert? Gallifrey was already silently back, without apparent consequence. So someone popped on a time ring or hopped in a TARDIS (and didn't have to worry about Daleks detecting a TARDIS in the vortex, because apparently the Daleks just plain got bored with the whole Time War thing), picked it up from ME, and for some reason left it in the wilderness outside the capital. I'd say that out of all the gripes one can have with Hell Bent, the precise means by which the dial got to Gallifrey ranks rather low on the list. It's still a huge plot hole, whether you like it or not!
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Post by mrperson on Dec 6, 2016 17:19:49 GMT
Well, I'm not doing the "plot whole" discussion again other than to note that "plot hole" =/= any old detail not explained. Some definitions."In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole"A gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot" www.yourdictionary.com/plot-hole Given everything we know about Timelord's technology, now advanced enough to bring Gallifrey back to the right universe without the Daleks noticing and resuming the Time War, it does not "go against the flow of logic established" by Raven/Heaven/Hell that the Timelords were capable of getting the dial to Gallifrey and, in fact, did so.
You may want to have seen a specific explanation for some reason, but that doesn't make its omission some kind of logical contradiction with the rest of the plot. They could have sent one person with a time ring or a vortex manipulator. They could have picked it up in a TARDIS from ME once the Doctor was inside. It really doesn't matter, and it isn't illogical that they would be capable of doing it. It would've been needless filler to plonk it into the beginning of Hell Bent, so, it was omitted.
It really is that simple.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Dec 6, 2016 18:29:54 GMT
Well, I'm not doing the "plot whole" discussion again other than to note that "plot hole" =/= any old detail not explained. Some definitions."In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole"A gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot" www.yourdictionary.com/plot-hole Given everything we know about Timelord's technology, now advanced enough to bring Gallifrey back to the right universe without the Daleks noticing and resuming the Time War, it does not "go against the flow of logic established" by Raven/Heaven/Hell that the Timelords were capable of getting the dial to Gallifrey and, in fact, did so.
You may want to have seen a specific explanation for some reason, but that doesn't make its omission some kind of logical contradiction with the rest of the plot. They could have sent one person with a time ring or a vortex manipulator. They could have picked it up in a TARDIS from ME once the Doctor was inside. It really doesn't matter, and it isn't illogical that they would be capable of doing it. It would've been needless filler to plonk it into the beginning of Hell Bent, so, it was omitted.
It really is that simple. Yeah, and dump it in the desert?
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Post by mark687 on Dec 6, 2016 20:33:07 GMT
Well, I'm not doing the "plot whole" discussion again other than to note that "plot hole" =/= any old detail not explained. Some definitions."In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole"A gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot" www.yourdictionary.com/plot-hole Given everything we know about Timelord's technology, now advanced enough to bring Gallifrey back to the right universe without the Daleks noticing and resuming the Time War, it does not "go against the flow of logic established" by Raven/Heaven/Hell that the Timelords were capable of getting the dial to Gallifrey and, in fact, did so.
You may want to have seen a specific explanation for some reason, but that doesn't make its omission some kind of logical contradiction with the rest of the plot. They could have sent one person with a time ring or a vortex manipulator. They could have picked it up in a TARDIS from ME once the Doctor was inside. It really doesn't matter, and it isn't illogical that they would be capable of doing it. It would've been needless filler to plonk it into the beginning of Hell Bent, so, it was omitted.
It really is that simple. Not the What is a Plot Hole Debate again
Regards
mark687
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Post by Ela on Dec 6, 2016 22:36:11 GMT
Seriously!
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Post by mrperson on Dec 6, 2016 23:26:22 GMT
Well, I'm not doing the "plot whole" discussion again other than to note that "plot hole" =/= any old detail not explained. Some definitions."In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole"A gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot" www.yourdictionary.com/plot-hole Given everything we know about Timelord's technology, now advanced enough to bring Gallifrey back to the right universe without the Daleks noticing and resuming the Time War, it does not "go against the flow of logic established" by Raven/Heaven/Hell that the Timelords were capable of getting the dial to Gallifrey and, in fact, did so.
You may want to have seen a specific explanation for some reason, but that doesn't make its omission some kind of logical contradiction with the rest of the plot. They could have sent one person with a time ring or a vortex manipulator. They could have picked it up in a TARDIS from ME once the Doctor was inside. It really doesn't matter, and it isn't illogical that they would be capable of doing it. It would've been needless filler to plonk it into the beginning of Hell Bent, so, it was omitted.
It really is that simple. Yeah, and dump it in the desert? So much the easier to locate him upon arrival......
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Post by mrperson on Dec 6, 2016 23:26:51 GMT
Not the What is a Plot Hole Debate again
Regards
mark687
Nobody expects the plot hole debate.
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