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Post by BHTvsTFC on Feb 12, 2022 21:56:53 GMT
I suppose it is odd not using David Bradley since he is now an official Doctor and not just someone who played Bill on TV in a biopic. Yet David is 80 in 2 months. Sylv and Colin are 79 this year. Carole Anne Ford is 82. Anneke 80. Even our youngest classic companion, Sophie, is 60 this year. So I can see BF wanting a cast they can use for the future but who arent in need of slowing down, retirement etc. Then, obviously the real elephant in the room...in 5, 10, certainly 20 years - what would be the state of play if they didn't have some sort of plans for the future? No-one wants to be morbid but there is a reason they banked SO much with Tom and do so when they can. Morbid - that's exactly the right word when it comes to the whole recasting thing. We don't have Hartnell so we got Hurndall, then we didn't have Hurndall so we got Russell and Purves to do some nifty interpretations followed by someone deciding that Bradley would make a good recast and now we have another recast and with each recast that distance grows - we now have full cast audios for the first and third doctor's that feature none of the original cast at all. It's interesting how far we've gone to satiate this never ending hunger for material. It's not too dissimilar to going to conventions - that one last chance to see/meet a classic series player whilst you still can, and then there's the fear of our own mortality - we're all getting older too. It's hard not to find a morbid aspect to the whole thing.
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Post by stcoop on Feb 12, 2022 22:45:18 GMT
Even Paul McGann is 62, which blows my mind.
I can't imagine the releases with all-fake casts selling nearly as well as the others but I guess BF are counting on the "gotta-buy-em-all" mentality to keep themselves in business in the long-term.
Still, I can't help but be reminded of that line from "The Pitch of Fear" that we're not allowed to hear any more.
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Post by thewatcher on Feb 12, 2022 23:34:14 GMT
Even Paul McGann is 62, which blows my mind. I can't imagine the releases with all-fake casts selling nearly as well as the others but I guess BF are counting on the "gotta-buy-em-all" mentality to keep themselves in business in the long-term. Still, I can't help but be reminded of that line from "The Pitch of Fear" that we're not allowed to hear any more. I don't think they fake casts. Fake implies an attempt to decieve. They simply recasting actors who dead now.
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Post by elkawho on Feb 12, 2022 23:38:03 GMT
I remember listening to the trailer or The Ninth Doctor Chronicles and hating it. Then someone talking me into giving it a try and I thoroughly enjoyed that release. I'm hoping this does the same.
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Post by stcoop on Feb 12, 2022 23:46:57 GMT
I don't think they fake casts. Fake implies an attempt to decieve. They simply recasting actors who dead now.
Where does it stop, though? When David Bradley dies will they recast his version of the First Doctor?
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Feb 13, 2022 0:46:24 GMT
I know this might be a foreign concept
But maybe some people have no issue with recasts and are happy to buy releases featuring them?
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 13, 2022 0:56:04 GMT
I don't think they fake casts. Fake implies an attempt to decieve. They simply recasting actors who dead now.
Where does it stop, though? When David Bradley dies will they recast his version of the First Doctor?
It stops when Big Finish loses their licence to produce original Who content or when fans stop supporting the various ranges.They are after all a business and are paying for the right to use all the available Doctors and their respective TARDIS teams. Clearly full cast sells better than Companion Chronicles style audios and if you want full cast, then parts are going to have be to recast. At the end of the day no one is pointing a gun at a person’s head telling them they have to order audios from BF. Big Finish is going to continue to make the things that makes them money and pays everyone’s salary. I don’t get the big deal people have over recasting. If one goes to see a long running play chances are most if not all of the cast members didn’t open the show. James Bond recasts every 10 or 15 years. It happens all the time in the various artistic mediums. As stated it isn’t a huge deal to me but respect that others hold a different view.
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Post by thewatcher on Feb 13, 2022 9:01:45 GMT
I don't think they fake casts. Fake implies an attempt to decieve. They simply recasting actors who dead now.
Where does it stop, though? When David Bradley dies will they recast his version of the First Doctor?
I don't know but you call it fake casting that is wrong. They are not pretending that Stephen Noonan is William Hartnell. They are not trying to decieve.
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Post by kipperserver on Feb 13, 2022 11:01:13 GMT
I like the clip on the podcast.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 13, 2022 13:42:00 GMT
I know this might be a foreign concept But maybe some people have no issue with recasts and are happy to buy releases featuring them? Yes. One can absolutely say 'I don't like x performance' (I'm not mad about Noonan here, as said) but also acknowledge that this is reality. BF are not deceiving anybody or lying here - they aren't selling us more actual Hartnell or Pertwee. They're selling more 1 and 3 stories - so many franchises have different actors for the same character. That Who, uniquely, has been able to avoid that till now is novel, but we were going to face facts soon or later.
It's important to be critical of the media we consume - if Chris Chibnall's work is fair game, so is Nick and Jason's. BF is a company after all. You can't pick and choose what is or isn't open to criticism. However, by that same token, we should also be mindful of playing fair - just because something isn't for you doesn't mean it has no worth to someone else, and certainly we shouldn't ascribe malice to things we simply disagree with.
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Post by project37 on Feb 13, 2022 14:00:09 GMT
Not for me personally - I thought he sounded more like Mr. Burns than the First Doctor. That said, I hope the creative team has fun making it and that those interested in this new series find great enjoyment in it.
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Post by elkawho on Feb 13, 2022 14:16:53 GMT
I like the clip on the podcast. I can't find much wrong with the clip... as somebody now used to Tim Treloar's Third Doctor I wouldn't expect an exact copy of William Hartnell. I think people need to lower their expectations when it comes to recasts. They will never be exact! Nor shoulder they be! I don't love the clips I heard, but I am willing to give this a chance. For the most part, I think BF does very well with their First Doctor output. Some of my favorite stories are their First Doctor stories. It seems that they have a harder time with their Second Doctor content. Like they just don't know what to do with the character at times.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2022 14:17:07 GMT
I like the clip on the podcast. I can't find much wrong with the clip... as somebody now used to Tim Treloar's Third Doctor I wouldn't expect an exact copy of William Hartnell. I think people need to lower their expectations when it comes to recasts. They will never be exact! How they work within the story itself is what makes them believable, or not.
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Post by xlozdob on Feb 13, 2022 15:05:22 GMT
Hmmmmmm, just listen to this and what’s up with the audio quality, it sounds terrible…….. It's supposed to recreate the sound of an old telly for the teaser (which, of course, David Burgess did an amazing job with)...........
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Post by relativetime on Feb 13, 2022 15:21:54 GMT
I think the worst part of the trailer for me was surprisingly Nick Brigg's "old-timey" presenter voice.
Just... no. Just no.
EDIT: And for the record, I do quite like Nick Briggs! I just thought this was just umm... yeah.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2022 21:10:24 GMT
As Audio noted, BF are a business and unless they do want to rely on Man With Chips Adventures...decisions do need to be made which can seem a bit cold. Its part and parcel of the job. We are spoiled as Who fans as all actors who play Ophelia or Poirot are the same character. Who allows for a totally different spectrum of leads and actors.
One aspect of Who we should always be grateful for, and it does become overlooked with time, is that when Bill Hartnell left...Innest Lloyd did opt for a different Doctor entirely. "Renewal" or not, opting to have a younger man (Pat was actually only 9 years younger than Bill when taking on the role but could easily be 30 with different looks and personalities..) and then once more opting for something different when Jon comes on etc, etc.
If Lloyd said "just find another middle aged man and stick a white wig on" - and had it be the "same" Doctor...I dont know if Who makes it out of the 60s.
So for years recasting the part was, unlike Bond say, not looking for a type like the predecessors with some tweaks - but often quite the opposite in look, personality, age et al. Now we enter that horrid part of life where our heroes are old enough that if the morbid comes to pass..it would be a shock, but not shocking if you see what I mean. With actors pushing or over the average UK life expectancy. Not one of us wants to contemplate that kinda stuff but remember a decade back when we lost Lis Sladen, Nick Courtney, Mary Tamm and Caroline John in mere months?
Tom makes no secret of his own machinations over mortality in interviews and its part of the reason he said he not only wanted to do as much BF as he could but make amends with people he had been a bit of a tit with. Lou Jameson says its like a different man now and thats as it should be. Tom wants to make what he can while he can - his art, his friends back and make people happy.
So it becomes tricky when instead of a "new" Doctor, someone is tasked with playin a specific incarnation. They do have to sound something akin to the actor but not at the expense of the acting. An impersonator is fine but can they also play pathos and heart? Luckily, BF have found some who can. Jon Culshaw is a very famous mimic in the UK but...he can act too. Tim Treolar does not sound too Pertwee like, but he captures The Third Doctor and his spirit perfectly with his mannerisms, tics and interaction and chemistry with Jo. Jacob does that as Tennant and Smith for me but cannot as Capaldi. Which is fine - to be a damn excellent soundalike AND actor for two Docs is a hell of a record. No shame not capturing a man 35 years older with an entirely different vocal candence and accent. Frankly, BF would be best finding a 50ish Scot to do Capaldi audios in my book, a Peter Mullan type (he is too famous but that kinda actor) its the only recast that takes me out the story, but thats a separate issue.
And that last sentence is kinda the crux...can you stay invested in the story? Our new 1st Doc does not sound much like Bill...but neither does David B! Yet the actor pulls me in.
I do not blame anyone who cannot look past recasts but to me if it is a recast over nada? Recast away. We still have companions rarin to travel to new worlds and different times! And sometimes, like Tim T, they become a lot better after time. The voice becomes more familiar to us and the actor is settled and can concentrate more on story instead of "is this how Jon would do it?".
I am happy we can have mature discussions about it as, like I said, Tom is perfectly open about awareness that he could leave us anytime. Sylv and Colin are above life expectancy nearly 80 and neither have had the healthiest of 2000s. As above, even Davison is 70. McGann and Capaldi are mid 60s, Eccleston is 57. Even boyish Tennant is 50. Time is a jetplane, to quote Dylan. And less morbidly...maybe some of the people just will want to retire and rest up. BF is a nice top up but they are not obliged to do it. Colin was quite open that he would make more at a decent con for 2 days than BF...but he LIKES new work rather than living off old success.
But yeah...sorry to the folks who wont "do" recasts but your BF journey, sad to say (very sad), will end at some point as time takes its toll.
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Post by Kestrel on Feb 13, 2022 23:16:09 GMT
....
And on a strictly personal note, if Bradley and Noonan do wind up alternating 1DAs (first, that'd be fantastic, but also) it'll really make a mess of things. Remember when Big Finish said they were trying to organize their media more simply and cleanly? That was just last year. I don't see how it'd make a mess of things honestly? It's no different than how the First Doctor has always been handled at Big Finish - when it's a story set in the later seasons, Purves voiced him, and when it was the earlier years, Russell voiced him. Now it'll just be Bradley and Noonan and I'm sure most listeners will be savvy enough to realize who's doing what and what to buy if they prefer one over the other. It is different: if this happens, it would be the first time Big Finish re-casts within a range and the first time they alternate between two different actors playing the same character. Right now I organize content first by character, then range, then actor. If they bring Bradley back for 1DA 08, for example, that means one list omitting 1DA 08 and the other going from 1DA 05 to 1DA 08. Like I said: strictly personal.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 13, 2022 23:20:53 GMT
As Audio noted, BF are a business and unless they do want to rely on Man With Chips Adventures...decisions do need to be made which can seem a bit cold. Its part and parcel of the job. We are spoiled as Who fans as all actors who play Ophelia or Poirot are the same character. Who allows for a totally different spectrum of leads and actors. One aspect of Who we should always be grateful for, and it does become overlooked with time, is that when Bill Hartnell left...Innest Lloyd did opt for a different Doctor entirely. "Renewal" or not, opting to have a younger man (Pat was actually only 9 years younger than Bill when taking on the role but could easily be 30 with different looks and personalities..) and then once more opting for something different when Jon comes on etc, etc. If Lloyd said "just find another middle aged man and stick a white wig on" - and had it be the "same" Doctor...I dont know if Who makes it out of the 60s. So for years recasting the part was, unlike Bond say, not looking for a type like the predecessors with some tweaks - but often quite the opposite in look, personality, age et al. Now we enter that horrid part of life where our heroes are old enough that if the morbid comes to pass..it would be a shock, but not shocking if you see what I mean. With actors pushing or over the average UK life expectancy. Not one of us wants to contemplate that kinda stuff but remember a decade back when we lost Lis Sladen, Nick Courtney, Mary Tamm and Caroline John in mere months? Tom makes no secret of his own machinations over mortality in interviews and its part of the reason he said he not only wanted to do as much BF as he could but make amends with people he had been a bit of a tit with. Lou Jameson says its like a different man now and thats as it should be. Tom wants to make what he can while he can - his art, his friends back and make people happy. So it becomes tricky when instead of a "new" Doctor, someone is tasked with playin a specific incarnation. They do have to sound something akin to the actor but not at the expense of the acting. An impersonator is fine but can they also play pathos and heart? Luckily, BF have found some who can. Jon Culshaw is a very famous mimic in the UK but...he can act too. Tim Treolar does not sound too Pertwee like, but he captures The Third Doctor and his spirit perfectly with his mannerisms, tics and interaction and chemistry with Jo. Jacob does that as Tennant and Smith for me but cannot as Capaldi. Which is fine - to be a damn excellent soundalike AND actor for two Docs is a hell of a record. No shame not capturing a man 35 years older with an entirely different vocal candence and accent. Frankly, BF would be best finding a 50ish Scot to do Capaldi audios in my book, a Peter Mullan type (he is too famous but that kinda actor) its the only recast that takes me out the story, but thats a separate issue. And that last sentence is kinda the crux...can you stay invested in the story? Our new 1st Doc does not sound much like Bill...but neither does David B! Yet the actor pulls me in. I do not blame anyone who cannot look past recasts but to me if it is a recast over nada? Recast away. We still have companions rarin to travel to new worlds and different times! And sometimes, like Tim T, they become a lot better after time. The voice becomes more familiar to us and the actor is settled and can concentrate more on story instead of "is this how Jon would do it?". I am happy we can have mature discussions about it as, like I said, Tom is perfectly open about awareness that he could leave us anytime. Sylv and Colin are above life expectancy nearly 80 and neither have had the healthiest of 2000s. As above, even Davison is 70. McGann and Capaldi are mid 60s, Eccleston is 57. Even boyish Tennant is 50. Time is a jetplane, to quote Dylan. And less morbidly...maybe some of the people just will want to retire and rest up. BF is a nice top up but they are not obliged to do it. Colin was quite open that he would make more at a decent con for 2 days than BF...but he LIKES new work rather than living off old success. But yeah...sorry to the folks who wont "do" recasts but your BF journey, sad to say (very sad), will end at some point as time takes its toll. Exquisitely put Davy.
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Post by thewatcher on Feb 14, 2022 8:24:10 GMT
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Post by theillusiveman on Feb 14, 2022 9:00:52 GMT
I Think its likely due to David Bradley's Availability that's the factor but then agian i think the smartest move Big Finish should have done was creating The First Doctor Chronicles and make it full cast so there wouldn't be any confusion.
But if Briggs really didnt like David Bradley and wanted him gone surely Jason and David Richardson would have a say in it or does Nick have the power of Veto?
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