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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 23:23:43 GMT
Not a single person on here wasn't a noob at some point. Since history and chronology in Who is always in flux, we really all still are! McQueen started with Seven, Marie in a special boxset release. The Master's history is a wee bit odd and not entirely clear but what happens is Beevers plays not only the burnt Master of TV but also he is the post-Ainley Master too (remember he didn't regenerate into Ainley, only stole the body) so when the facade oa Ainley decays, it's Beevers again as that's his "real" form. Then he steals Eric Roberts' body - like he did Ainley - and when that fails...he becomes Beevers for the third time! Much of this was piecing together theories but then the Companion Chronicle Mastermind helped clear up quite a few things. Dark Eyes 3 helps a bit more with pitching MacQueen as a resurrected-by-the-CIA Master, to fight The Eminence. I know...roll with it! I'm sure Billy2/Tim has done a timeline for The Master. That's a little confusing, as I figured when Ainley's body decays, he turns directly into Tipple Master, and when that fails and he gets sucked into the TARDIS at the end of the movie, he becomes the Shalka Master. I thought the novel of the webcast confirmed that's how the Shalka Master came about? Shalka was de-canonised when Nu-Who went into production so you really have to treat that as alternate history at best. Richard E Grant WAS the official Ninth Doctor for a while but then RTD came along and - believe me - he wasn't a fan So it's Delgado-Pratt/Beevers 1-Ainley-Beevers 2/Tipple-Roberts-Beevers 3-MacQueen-Jacobi-Simm-Gomez untill someone else decides to change it! To really kinda throw the cat among the pigeons - everything there from Delgado to Beevers 3 is believed to be all one incarnation as The Master is stealing bodies but not regenerating. Phew....
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Post by marie1964 on Jan 7, 2016 23:39:37 GMT
That's a little confusing, as I figured when Ainley's body decays, he turns directly into Tipple Master, and when that fails and he gets sucked into the TARDIS at the end of the movie, he becomes the Shalka Master. I thought the novel of the webcast confirmed that's how the Shalka Master came about? Shalka was de-canonised when Nu-Who went into production so you really have to treat that as alternate history at best. Richard E Grant WAS the official Ninth Doctor for a while but then RTD came along and - believe me - he wasn't a fan So it's Delgado-Pratt/Beevers 1-Ainley-Beevers 2/Tipple-Roberts-Beevers 3-MacQueen-Jacobi-Simm-Gomez untill someone else decides to change it! To really kinda throw the cat among the pigeons - everything there from Delgado to Beevers 3 is believed to be all one incarnation as The Master is stealing bodies but not regenerating. Phew.... William Hughes would come before Delgado, correct?
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Post by randomjc on Jan 7, 2016 23:43:55 GMT
That's a little confusing, as I figured when Ainley's body decays, he turns directly into Tipple Master, and when that fails and he gets sucked into the TARDIS at the end of the movie, he becomes the Shalka Master. I thought the novel of the webcast confirmed that's how the Shalka Master came about? Shalka was de-canonised when Nu-Who went into production so you really have to treat that as alternate history at best. I refuse to believe in any canon that does not include Shalka! ;p
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 7, 2016 23:47:48 GMT
I'd rather not have another hidden Master incarnation only a few years after getting Alex MacQueen playing just that. MacQueen makes sense as The Master from the Time War. We know his incarnation was resurrected by the Timelords to fight a war - fits perfectly with Jacobi and Simm's paths. MacQueen runs away from the Time War in the early days, regenerates and uses the fob-watch and then eventually Utopia happens... The "hidden" Masters could easily be the ones before we meet Roger Delgado in Terror of the Autons....providing of course that the first Master we meet wasn't the first Master.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 23:51:29 GMT
Shalka was de-canonised when Nu-Who went into production so you really have to treat that as alternate history at best. I refuse to believe in any canon that does not include Shalka! ;p I think it's the worst thing Paul Cornell ever wrote and REG is awful but I still own the DVD! The documentary o the making of is very nostalgic for me as it goes in to detail on the BBC Cult site which any UK Who fan online in 2001-2004 would have known intimately!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 23:53:55 GMT
Shalka was de-canonised when Nu-Who went into production so you really have to treat that as alternate history at best. Richard E Grant WAS the official Ninth Doctor for a while but then RTD came along and - believe me - he wasn't a fan So it's Delgado-Pratt/Beevers 1-Ainley-Beevers 2/Tipple-Roberts-Beevers 3-MacQueen-Jacobi-Simm-Gomez untill someone else decides to change it! To really kinda throw the cat among the pigeons - everything there from Delgado to Beevers 3 is believed to be all one incarnation as The Master is stealing bodies but not regenerating. Phew.... William Hughes would come before Delgado, correct? Yes. He's presumably the Master that gets a rather terrifying backstory with The Doctor in Joe Lidster's main range story just called "Master" (though the audio was years earlier, it and Hughes are both kid Master)
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Post by randomjc on Jan 7, 2016 23:55:15 GMT
I refuse to believe in any canon that does not include Shalka! ;p I think it's the worst thing Paul Cornell ever wrote and REG is awful but I still own the DVD! The documentary o the making of is very nostalgic for me as it goes in to detail on the BBC Cult site which any UK Who fan online in 2001-2004 would have known intimately! You sir are a Heathen!
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Post by constonks on Jan 8, 2016 0:35:24 GMT
Personally, my Master timeline looks like this:
William Hughes: The Sound of Drums (flashback), Master (flashback) Roger Delgado: The Toy (flashback), The Dark Path [...] Legacy of the Daleks Peter Pratt & Geoffrey Beevers: The Deadly Assassin [...] The Keeper of Traken Anthony Ainley: Logopolis [...] Survival Basil Rathbone: First Frontier, Happy Endings - Body decays back to Ainley - Anthony Ainley: Prime Time, Stop The Pigeon, Prisoners of Time Geoffrey Beevers: Dust Breeding, Master - The Master gets a body shaped like Canadian actor Gordon Tipple - Gordon Tipple: The Eight Doctors (Skaro flashback), Doctor Who (prologue) Eric Roberts & Geoffrey Beevers (Deathworm/Essence): Doctor Who, The Fallen, The Glorious Dead, Sometime Never, The Deadstone Memorial, The Gallifrey Chronicles, The Centenarian: Prologue & Forgotten, Mastermind (and maybe The Adventuress of Henrietta Street but that one is hard to place) Alex Macqueen: Dark Eyes 2, Dark Eyes 3, UNIT: Dominion, Dark Eyes 4 Derek Jacobi: Utopia John Simm: Utopia [...] The End of Time Michelle Gomez: Deep Breath [...] The Witch's Familiar
Although this is open to much debate and based on the always-obvious fact that Doctor Who Is Not Made To Fit Together, it's the best I've got.
Bonus round: If the Shalka Master comes somewhere in the Deathworm/Essence section, perhaps Scream of the Shalka takes place in a pre-Gallifreyan-restoration timeline after the EDAs?[/spoiler]
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Post by marie1964 on Jan 8, 2016 0:56:58 GMT
Shalka was de-canonised when Nu-Who went into production so you really have to treat that as alternate history at best. I refuse to believe in any canon that does not include Shalka! ;p I second the motion! Besides, having an android version of the Master is just plain cool.
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Post by marie1964 on Jan 8, 2016 0:59:21 GMT
William Hughes would come before Delgado, correct? Yes. He's presumably the Master that gets a rather terrifying backstory with The Doctor in Joe Lidster's main range story just called "Master" (though the audio was years earlier, it and Hughes are both kid Master) While I still really need to listen to this audio, I'm familiar with the story. Poor Master.
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Post by marie1964 on Jan 8, 2016 1:04:16 GMT
Personally, my Master timeline looks like this (spoiler'd for length and slight divergence from the topic): William Hughes: The Sound of Drums (flashback), Master (flashback) Roger Delgado: The Toy (flashback), The Dark Path [...] Legacy of the Daleks Peter Pratt & Geoffrey Beevers: The Deadly Assassin [...] The Keeper of Traken Anthony Ainley: Logopolis [...] Survival Basil Rathbone: First Frontier, Happy Endings - Body decays back to Ainley - Anthony Ainley: Prime Time, Stop The Pigeon, Prisoners of Time Geoffrey Beevers: Dust Breeding, Master - The Master gets a body shaped like Canadian actor Gordon Tipple - Gordon Tipple: The Eight Doctors (Skaro flashback), Doctor Who (prologue) Eric Roberts & Geoffrey Beevers (Deathworm/Essence): Doctor Who, The Fallen, The Glorious Dead, Sometime Never, The Deadstone Memorial, The Gallifrey Chronicles, The Centenarian: Prologue & Forgotten, Mastermind (and maybe The Adventuress of Henrietta Street but that one is hard to place) Alex Macqueen: Dark Eyes 2, Dark Eyes 3, UNIT: Dominion, Dark Eyes 4 Derek Jacobi: Utopia John Simm: Utopia [...] The End of Time Michelle Gomez: Deep Breath [...] The Witch's Familiar
Although this is open to much debate and based on the always-obvious fact that Doctor Who Is Not Made To Fit Together, it's the best I've got.
Bonus round: If the Shalka Master comes somewhere in the Deathworm/Essence section, perhaps Scream of the Shalka takes place in a pre-Gallifreyan-restoration timeline after the EDAs? Can you elaborate on why you chose Basil for the novels?
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Post by constonks on Jan 8, 2016 1:11:30 GMT
Personally, my Master timeline looks like this. Can you elaborate on why you chose Basil for the novels? The appearance of the Master's new incarnation was based on Rathbone (according to David A. McIntee, I guess??). I just realised I have no idea where that piece of information comes from other than various wikis. The description of the Master from First Frontier is below. "He looked down at himself, noting that his scorched uniform was too short and too loose by a couple of inches each way. Stroking the glossy mustache that didn't quite meet the neat beard which covered his proud chin, both of them framing his narrow mouth, the Master laughed triumphantly. His high forehead and aristocratic nose tilted ceilingwards while his lean face cracked into a delighted grin." I think it's supposed to be this particular Rathbone??? upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Basil_Rathbone_in_Tovarich_trailer.jpg
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Post by seeley on Jan 8, 2016 1:47:23 GMT
Bonus round: If the Shalka Master comes somewhere in the Deathworm/Essence section, perhaps Scream of the Shalka takes place in a pre-Gallifreyan-restoration timeline after the EDAs? For my money, Scream of the Shalka takes place in the Second War in Heaven timeline(s). The Doctor in the "Trask's Story" chapter of Alien Bodies seems a pretty good match for Richard E. Grant's incarnation and "Qixototl's Story" suggests that he's getting fed up with the Time Lords pushing him around, not unlike the REG Doctor. There's probably some key detail I've missed that prevents this from working, but it seems reasonable.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jan 8, 2016 6:45:45 GMT
Pre-ordered the trilogy, as if there was any doubt I'd be getting this.
Very excited to hear we this trilogy takes us, but as John Dorney is writing The Two Masters i have no worries that this will be nothing short of excellent.
Is this the first time the Fifth & Sixth had a Master story from Big Finish, barring Light At The End?
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Post by Zagreus on Jan 8, 2016 7:01:52 GMT
Pre-ordered the trilogy, as if there was any doubt I'd be getting this. Very excited to hear we this trilogy takes us, but as John Dorney is writing The Two Masters i have no worries that this will be nothing short f excellent. Is this the first time the Fifth & Sixth had a Master story from Big Finish, barring Light At The End? Five's had the Winter episode of the Circular Time anthology and Smoke & Mirrors from Destiny of the Doctor. Six has had The Hollows of Time from over in The Lost Stories and The End of the Line from The Last Adventure special set.
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Post by lidar on Jan 8, 2016 8:41:24 GMT
That's a little confusing, as I figured when Ainley's body decays, he turns directly into Tipple Master, and when that fails and he gets sucked into the TARDIS at the end of the movie, he becomes the Shalka Master. I thought the novel of the webcast confirmed that's how the Shalka Master came about? Shalka was de-canonised when Nu-Who went into production so you really have to treat that as alternate history at best. Richard E Grant WAS the official Ninth Doctor for a while but then RTD came along and - believe me - he wasn't a fan So it's Delgado-Pratt/Beevers 1-Ainley-Beevers 2/Tipple-Roberts-Beevers 3-MacQueen-Jacobi-Simm-Gomez untill someone else decides to change it! To really kinda throw the cat among the pigeons - everything there from Delgado to Beevers 3 is believed to be all one incarnation as The Master is stealing bodies but not regenerating. Phew.... For my two pennies' worth I basically agree with you, but I'm not sure about Delgado and Pratt/Beevers1 being the same incarnation, I don't think there is any explicit onscreeen confrimation either way. Also not sure why you say Beevers2 and Tipple are one and the same, surely they are different?
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Post by acousticwolf on Jan 8, 2016 9:04:14 GMT
Whatever you do, don't mention the War Chief ... oh damn ... Cheers Tony
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Post by dorney on Jan 8, 2016 9:26:42 GMT
Whatever you do, don't mention the War Chief ... oh damn ... Cheers Tony what about the War Chief who fought in the Time War? The War War Chief?
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Post by omega on Jan 8, 2016 9:32:10 GMT
Whatever you do, don't mention the War Chief ... oh damn ... Cheers Tony I mentioned him once, but I think I got away with it...
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Post by Timelord007 on Jan 8, 2016 9:43:11 GMT
Pre-ordered the trilogy, as if there was any doubt I'd be getting this. Very excited to hear we this trilogy takes us, but as John Dorney is writing The Two Masters i have no worries that this will be nothing short f excellent. Is this the first time the Fifth & Sixth had a Master story from Big Finish, barring Light At The End? Five's had the Winter episode of the Circular Time anthology and Smoke & Mirrors from Destiny of the Doctor. Six has had The Hollows of Time from over in The Lost Stories and The End of the Line from The Last Adventure special set. Of course they did thanks for the reminder, I'm sure I'm losing the plot.
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