Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2024 14:57:14 GMT
They said something about Ncuti? Possibly the Tennant v Badenoch spat. In which I am thoroughly in accord with Tennant's sentiments but wish he'd had a publicist review his speech before saying it and left out the ad hominem and commented on the policies of the Government and their offices rather than Kemi Badenoch herself. Nah. I'm all for it exactly as he did. We need to recognise that you can tell a PERSON to "shut up" because they are spouting hate and you don't want to hear it and it's not the same as trying to "silence" women, or people of colour. That's what the Tories are claiming he's done. Which is BS. And if this happens to a very popular celeb like Tennant, more will see through the politics and know what he did and didn't mean. One step towards normalising language.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jun 27, 2024 15:07:59 GMT
Possibly the Tennant v Badenoch spat. In which I am thoroughly in accord with Tennant's sentiments but wish he'd had a publicist review his speech before saying it and left out the ad hominem and commented on the policies of the Government and their offices rather than Kemi Badenoch herself. Nah. I'm all for it exactly as he did. We need to recognise that you can tell a PERSON to "shut up" because they are spouting hate and you don't want to hear it and it's not the same as trying to "silence" women, or people of colour. That's what the Tories are claiming he's done. Which is BS. And if this happens to a very popular celeb like Tennant, more will see through the politics and know what he did and didn't mean. One step towards normalising language. Can't agree with you there. You don't give them the option in the first place I believe to respond with their straw man replies. So phrasing it (and I'm looking for a mid way point between us) more like "I wish Kemi Badenoch would shut up about about her hateful and discriminatory beliefs" scans far better than saying "I wish Kemi Badenoch would just shut up". Give no avenue for the intent to be weaponised against you. But it shows up the lie that the Conservatives/Reform/whoever on the so-called Right don't practise identity politics. They have always practised it.
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Post by BHTvsTFC on Jun 27, 2024 16:26:43 GMT
You've got to love the Conservative Party and it's supporters haven't you. How many thousands of vulnerable people have died since the coalition and remind any one of them of that and they have the bare faced cheek to take offence, yet a little name calling and they take serious umbridge. I'm totally behind everything David Tennant said at that show. RTD called them murderers in a speech some time ago and, again, totally behind him.
Don't cry for Kemi; she will get her Damehood and her seat in the House of Lords - she has made a vary comfortable life for herself out of very mediocre beliefs. She will walk proud and genuinely believe she exists in the same pantheon as Rosa Parkes, Maya Angelou, Kamala Harris, Michelle Obama, etc, when really she is nothing extraordinary. The Conservatives represent the base that exists in all of us; possibly why they keep winning elections. Some of us just aspire to be more than that, and believe me we don't have to try hard.
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Post by timleschild on Jun 27, 2024 17:17:06 GMT
You've got to love the Conservative Party and it's supporters haven't you. How many thousands of vulnerable people have died since the coalition and remind any one of them of that and they have the bare faced cheek to take offence, yet a little name calling and they take serious umbridge. I'm totally behind everything David Tennant said at that show. RTD called them murderers in a speech some time ago and, again, totally behind him. Don't cry for Kemi; she will get her Damehood and her seat in the House of Lords - she has made a vary comfortable life for herself out of very mediocre beliefs. She will walk proud and genuinely believe she exists in the same pantheon as Rosa Parkes, Maya Angelou, Kamala Harris, Michelle Obama, etc, when really she is nothing extraordinary. The Conservatives represent the base that exists in all of us; possibly why they keep winning elections. Some of us just aspire to be more than that, and believe me we don't have to try hard. & let's not forget this - Bafflement over Tory MP's admission she hacked Harriet Harman's website.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2024 17:17:24 GMT
Nah. I'm all for it exactly as he did. We need to recognise that you can tell a PERSON to "shut up" because they are spouting hate and you don't want to hear it and it's not the same as trying to "silence" women, or people of colour. That's what the Tories are claiming he's done. Which is BS. And if this happens to a very popular celeb like Tennant, more will see through the politics and know what he did and didn't mean. One step towards normalising language. Can't agree with you there. You don't give them the option in the first place I believe to respond with their straw man replies. So phrasing it (and I'm looking for a mid way point between us) more like "I wish Kemi Badenoch would shut up about about her hateful and discriminatory beliefs" scans far better than saying "I wish Kemi Badenoch would just shut up". Give no avenue for the intent to be weaponised against you. But it shows up the lie that the Conservatives/Reform/whoever on the so-called Right don't practise identity politics. They have always practised it. This high road stuff doesn't win. They'll just take quotes out of context. Even in your "better" version...it can still be shortened to "I wish Kemi Badenoch would shut up". That's what they'd do. The left need to stop worrying about how the other side weaponise things - and tool up too. The fight won't be won over content vs intent - so you have to make an impact. Tennant did - and the people moaning were never voting anyone but Tory anyway. 1-0.
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Kestrel
Chancellery Guard
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Post by Kestrel on Jun 28, 2024 2:00:33 GMT
Currently watching the debate over here and it's such a profound ****show I can only hope things are looking less bleak over on your side of the pond.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2024 2:34:42 GMT
Currently watching the debate over here and it's such a profound ****show I can only hope things are looking less bleak over on your side of the pond. Biden is toast going on this. When your own team have to brief the press to say "he's just got a cold, it's not age" during the debate? Ouch. What Trump would do in a second term makes an ineffectual Tory party seem like the table at Camelot..
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Post by number13 on Jun 28, 2024 14:24:06 GMT
You've got to love the Conservative Party and it's supporters haven't you. How many thousands of vulnerable people have died since the coalition and remind any one of them of that and they have the bare faced cheek to take offence, yet a little name calling and they take serious umbridge. I'm totally behind everything David Tennant said at that show. RTD called them murderers in a speech some time ago and, again, totally behind him. Don't cry for Kemi; she will get her Damehood and her seat in the House of Lords - she has made a vary comfortable life for herself out of very mediocre beliefs. She will walk proud and genuinely believe she exists in the same pantheon as Rosa Parkes, Maya Angelou, Kamala Harris, Michelle Obama, etc, when really she is nothing extraordinary. The Conservatives represent the base that exists in all of us; possibly why they keep winning elections. Some of us just aspire to be more than that, and believe me we don't have to try hard.
I just dropped in to give a one-week-in-advance 'I was right wasn't I?' about the size of Labour's majority (and I'm sure I will be right!) - and the things you learn when you're away for just a brief while.
I'd missed those earlier comments and wish I hadn't read them now.
The Whoniverse clearly doesn't want people like me in it any more.
Don't write off a whole section of society based on your personal political beliefs. I'm a longtime Conservative voter and I am not 'base'. Neither are those of my friends and relatives who vote Conservative. I've known many, many good and kind and honest people who voted for all the main parties and I'm happy to say so. When we think that only people 'like us' can be right (or righteous), we are always wrong.
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Post by timleschild on Jun 28, 2024 14:34:57 GMT
You've got to love the Conservative Party and it's supporters haven't you. How many thousands of vulnerable people have died since the coalition and remind any one of them of that and they have the bare faced cheek to take offence, yet a little name calling and they take serious umbridge. I'm totally behind everything David Tennant said at that show. RTD called them murderers in a speech some time ago and, again, totally behind him. Don't cry for Kemi; she will get her Damehood and her seat in the House of Lords - she has made a vary comfortable life for herself out of very mediocre beliefs. She will walk proud and genuinely believe she exists in the same pantheon as Rosa Parkes, Maya Angelou, Kamala Harris, Michelle Obama, etc, when really she is nothing extraordinary. The Conservatives represent the base that exists in all of us; possibly why they keep winning elections. Some of us just aspire to be more than that, and believe me we don't have to try hard.
I just dropped in to give a one-week-in-advance 'I was right wasn't I?' about the size of Labour's majority (and I'm sure I will be right!) - and the things you learn when you're away for just a brief while.
I'd missed those earlier comments and wish I hadn't read them now.
The Whoniverse clearly doesn't want people like me in it any more.
Don't write off a whole section of society based on your personal political beliefs. I'm a longtime Conservative voter and I am not 'base'. Neither are those of my friends and relatives who vote Conservative. I've known many, many good and kind and honest people who voted for all the main parties and I'm happy to say so. When we think that only people 'like us' can be right (or righteous), we are always wrong.
If people still want to vote tory after the past 14 years I just do not know what those who don't & have suffered under this regime are supposed to think of them?
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Post by BHTvsTFC on Jun 28, 2024 14:54:04 GMT
You've got to love the Conservative Party and it's supporters haven't you. How many thousands of vulnerable people have died since the coalition and remind any one of them of that and they have the bare faced cheek to take offence, yet a little name calling and they take serious umbridge. I'm totally behind everything David Tennant said at that show. RTD called them murderers in a speech some time ago and, again, totally behind him. Don't cry for Kemi; she will get her Damehood and her seat in the House of Lords - she has made a vary comfortable life for herself out of very mediocre beliefs. She will walk proud and genuinely believe she exists in the same pantheon as Rosa Parkes, Maya Angelou, Kamala Harris, Michelle Obama, etc, when really she is nothing extraordinary. The Conservatives represent the base that exists in all of us; possibly why they keep winning elections. Some of us just aspire to be more than that, and believe me we don't have to try hard.
I just dropped in to give a one-week-in-advance 'I was right wasn't I?' about the size of Labour's majority (and I'm sure I will be right!) - and the things you learn when you're away for just a brief while.
I'd missed those earlier comments and wish I hadn't read them now.
The Whoniverse clearly doesn't want people like me in it any more.
Don't write off a whole section of society based on your personal political beliefs. I'm a longtime Conservative voter and I am not 'base'. Neither are those of my friends and relatives who vote Conservative. I've known many, many good and kind and honest people who voted for all the main parties and I'm happy to say so. When we think that only people 'like us' can be right (or righteous), we are always wrong.
So how do you feel about the cruelty your party inflicts on the less fortunate members of society then? If you aren't 'base' then do you take some responsibility for the likes of Iain Duncan Smith, David Cameron, etc and the deaths that came as a result of welfare reform. Btw any response that attempts to justify it will prove it. I was lucky enough to find work before the coalition got elected and missed out of most of the suffering first hand, but I have had friends suffer at the hands of it - friends with chronic illnesses and disabilities who repeatedly have to go through the same ritual humiliation to get money to subsidise on - the powers that be stoop at nothing to get to them as well, anything from ineptitude to outright lies have been told about thousands of innocent people to get them off benefits with no come back on any politician or DWP/ATOS employee as a result. IDS wasn't nicknamed the Minister for Manslaughter for nothing. So go on, I'll be interested to hear your take on it. Did the trains run on time for you? For the record whilst I'm happy to negatively judge your political beliefs ( although I do believe in your right to have them, more fool me) one of my best friends is also a staunch right winger whose nickname for me is Lefty Woke. If ever we watch anything together and any character shows the slightest hint of compassion he says 'it's one of your kind!' as if it's something bad. He does have the ability to make me laugh mind. At him usually, not with him I hasten to add. I like to think the Whoniverse was never meant for right wingers myself, but I wish that was true about creation as a whole. If you find it's current format (which isn't faultless by a long straw) beyond you then tatty bye!
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Post by mark687 on Jun 28, 2024 15:39:19 GMT
Assuming a Con loss how long will public opinion give new incumbent to implement change before disquiet set in again?
Regards
mark687
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Post by BHTvsTFC on Jun 28, 2024 15:49:51 GMT
Assuming a Con loss how long will public opinion give new incumbent to implement change? Regards mark687 Probably nothing radical at all. Although as a warning to our Conservative voters someone somewhere might get a free television - maybe even with a remote control. Nothing to be scared of. That said I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Conservative majority. I keep remembering 1992! 'We decimated British industry, we brought in the poll tax, we chose for Prime Minister a man with all the charisma of a contraflow system! And still Kinnock managed to avoid winning the election!' Alan B'stard
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Post by mark687 on Jun 28, 2024 15:58:26 GMT
Assuming a Con loss how long will public opinion give new incumbent to implement change? Regards mark687 Probably nothing radical at all. Although as a warning to our Conservative voters someone somewhere might get a free television - maybe even with a remote control. Nothing to be scared of. Sorry that's a lazy jibe (as I would Support that even if I was Con) but alas also indicative of how Pollical and publc discourse has disintegrated, successful society can't work at one extreme or the other there must be centre ground. Regards mark687
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Post by timleschild on Jun 28, 2024 16:13:50 GMT
Probably nothing radical at all. Although as a warning to our Conservative voters someone somewhere might get a free television - maybe even with a remote control. Nothing to be scared of. Sorry that's a lazy jibe (as I would Support that even if I was Con) but alas also indicative of how Pollical and publc discourse has disintegrated, successful society can't work at one extreme or the other there must be centre ground. Regards mark687 & we are currently living under a regime that is far from the centre ground. A right wing tory party.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2024 16:13:51 GMT
You've got to love the Conservative Party and it's supporters haven't you. How many thousands of vulnerable people have died since the coalition and remind any one of them of that and they have the bare faced cheek to take offence, yet a little name calling and they take serious umbridge. I'm totally behind everything David Tennant said at that show. RTD called them murderers in a speech some time ago and, again, totally behind him. Don't cry for Kemi; she will get her Damehood and her seat in the House of Lords - she has made a vary comfortable life for herself out of very mediocre beliefs. She will walk proud and genuinely believe she exists in the same pantheon as Rosa Parkes, Maya Angelou, Kamala Harris, Michelle Obama, etc, when really she is nothing extraordinary. The Conservatives represent the base that exists in all of us; possibly why they keep winning elections. Some of us just aspire to be more than that, and believe me we don't have to try hard.
I just dropped in to give a one-week-in-advance 'I was right wasn't I?' about the size of Labour's majority (and I'm sure I will be right!) - and the things you learn when you're away for just a brief while.
I'd missed those earlier comments and wish I hadn't read them now.
The Whoniverse clearly doesn't want people like me in it any more.
Don't write off a whole section of society based on your personal political beliefs. I'm a longtime Conservative voter and I am not 'base'. Neither are those of my friends and relatives who vote Conservative. I've known many, many good and kind and honest people who voted for all the main parties and I'm happy to say so. When we think that only people 'like us' can be right (or righteous), we are always wrong.
The "but we have good people..." argument is exactly what Nigel Farage is currently saying about Reform on the TV today. Yeah...and the right has, disproportionately, a LOT of scumbags. Who have voted, supported or advocated to punish the disabled, the LGBT and the immigrant. So, sorry, this is not the time to do the "Most of us are just nice normal people, we like the Bake Off and village fetes". You support the worst electable side we have in England. And who have ruined this country for a generation or two. So not the time for "good and bad on both side" crap. No. Yours is worse. And acting like "The Whoniverse" doesn't want you? Would you like a violin? Because you like classic Who doesn't mean you can't support abhorrent things. Youtube is full of it. "Full of it" sums it up, no need for this defensiveness towards the poster you responded to as though you're standing for office. I thought you'd had major issues with the Tories recently and only wanted to support to not give anything to Reform?
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Post by mark687 on Jun 28, 2024 16:21:41 GMT
Sorry that's a lazy jibe (as I would Support that even if I was Con) but alas also indicative of how Pollical and publc discourse has disintegrated, successful society can't work at one extreme or the other there must be centre ground. Regards mark687 & we are currently living under a regime that is far from the centre ground. A right wing tory party. Yes I agree but with respect the run them out with pitchforks and how can anyone support anything they do discourse can be as extreme, to keep moving forward there has to be some common consciences reached (not perfection but manageable for the majority.) Regards mark687
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Post by BHTvsTFC on Jun 28, 2024 16:24:20 GMT
Sorry that's a lazy jibe (as I would Support that even if I was Con) but alas also indicative of how Pollical and publc discourse has disintegrated, successful society can't work at one extreme or the other there must be centre ground. Regards mark687 & we are currently living under a regime that is far from the centre ground. A right wing tory party. Agree with both of those statements. And we were just debating name calling versus thousands of deaths of needy and vulnerable people - my jibe, lazy as it was, was a dig at those who get more offended by the former. Absolutely not one shred of an apology if that included yourself, Mark.
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Post by timleschild on Jun 28, 2024 17:29:36 GMT
& we are currently living under a regime that is far from the centre ground. A right wing tory party. Yes I agree but with respect the run them out with pitchforks and how can anyone support anything they do discourse can be as extreme, to keep moving forward there has to be some common consciences reached (not perfection but manageable for the majority.) Regards mark687 Extreme? Are you in UK? Have you seen what they have done to this country & also how their illegal behaviour has led to an even more negative attitude towards politics in general? When do we say enough is enough?
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Post by bethhigdon on Jun 28, 2024 17:44:57 GMT
Currently watching the debate over here and it's such a profound ****show I can only hope things are looking less bleak over on your side of the pond. Biden is toast going on this. When your own team have to brief the press to say "he's just got a cold, it's not age" during the debate? Ouch. What Trump would do in a second term makes an ineffectual Tory party seem like the table at Camelot.. This isn't the 20th century anymore. A low energy performance in a single early debate isn't going to effect much one way or the other.
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Post by bethhigdon on Jun 28, 2024 17:50:50 GMT
You've got to love the Conservative Party and it's supporters haven't you. How many thousands of vulnerable people have died since the coalition and remind any one of them of that and they have the bare faced cheek to take offence, yet a little name calling and they take serious umbridge. I'm totally behind everything David Tennant said at that show. RTD called them murderers in a speech some time ago and, again, totally behind him. Don't cry for Kemi; she will get her Damehood and her seat in the House of Lords - she has made a vary comfortable life for herself out of very mediocre beliefs. She will walk proud and genuinely believe she exists in the same pantheon as Rosa Parkes, Maya Angelou, Kamala Harris, Michelle Obama, etc, when really she is nothing extraordinary. The Conservatives represent the base that exists in all of us; possibly why they keep winning elections. Some of us just aspire to be more than that, and believe me we don't have to try hard.
I just dropped in to give a one-week-in-advance 'I was right wasn't I?' about the size of Labour's majority (and I'm sure I will be right!) - and the things you learn when you're away for just a brief while.
I'd missed those earlier comments and wish I hadn't read them now.
The Whoniverse clearly doesn't want people like me in it any more.
Don't write off a whole section of society based on your personal political beliefs. I'm a longtime Conservative voter and I am not 'base'. Neither are those of my friends and relatives who vote Conservative. I've known many, many good and kind and honest people who voted for all the main parties and I'm happy to say so. When we think that only people 'like us' can be right (or righteous), we are always wrong.
If you're ashamed of being associated with the worst (and most visible) aspects of a political party then maybe you shouldn't be apart of that political party anymore.
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