ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
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Post by ljwilson on Nov 29, 2016 19:44:35 GMT
What a belter this thread is!
Ulyssessarcher, good on you for speaking your mind honestly and for the good you say you do in your local community.
I cant agree with any of your religious stuff though, i just think people who hang on any religion to be ever so slightly bonkers. You are from the Deep South though and Im from rural Lancashire, so i cant even pretend put your upbringing and environment in to context so i wont even try.
What unites us though is our love of a good audio drama, mostly Dr Who and BF, which just shows how far reaching it all is.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 0:15:00 GMT
I'm going to be blunt:
If the other places were Doctor Who forums, then I'm sorry, but it sounds more then fair. Doctor Who has embraced the LGBT community very publicly since the revival begun (not to menticon during during The Wilderness Years in print) and you find yourself in a space where such views would be unacceptable. Please do moderate yourself. Kids have grown up watching the revival series and accepted themselves, as have many adults. That shouldn't be up for debate for a show which has embraced the LGBT community. We are also very much not a modern invention.
I think telling any kind of minority how to conduct themselves is incredibly patronising. Also: what about the athiests who marry? Do you take issue with their marriage?
I strongly disagree about your comments about civil war, abortion, women and climate change. I think we're setting up a bad precedent for this forum in airing such views.
I hope one day you can accept your daughter for who she is.
I grew up in a country town, as well.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Nov 30, 2016 1:26:58 GMT
Not to ruffle feathers or pick fights but when it comes to the climate debate the climate deniers literally, and factually, have nothing left to stand on. Zero. Zilch. It's real. It's happening. And humanity in large part has created it. The oil companies knew what was going on back in the early 70s, and in fact were leaders on dealing with climate change up until the early 80s when they reversed course and became the largest supplier of misinformation about the subject. The military has been war gaming climate change scenarios for over a decade. To deny it is to deny reality. And to a larger political point, it isn't a conservative/liberal issue. It's an issue of is one going to believe peer reviewed science or is one going to believe fiction. Regional location, religious faith or political affiliation is no excuse to wallow in half-truths & ignorance. It's like saying the Earth isn't round, 10,000 years old or that man is a product of intelligent design and not millions of years of evolution. The oil companies are doing what the tobacco companies did for decades. What coal miner owners did for decades. Sorry but this is something I can't leave alone or call out when I see, hear or read those denials.
Speaking as someone born & raised in the deep south and someone brought up in a politically conservative family, I find the objections of conservatives to abortion or gay marriage in direct opposition to those private matters as antithetical to the tenets of small government conservatism. You either believe in a government that stays out of people's lives or you don't. You don't get to pick and chose what part of people's lives you want to dictate or not dictate. And a person's faith is something private. I would never presume to tell others what to believe or force them to believe what I believe. We are a country that is rapidly changing. And change is scary. I get that but there comes a point where a person has to acknowledge things have changed and deal with it.
As for Trump, well, I have said for months that Brexit was the preview of coming attractions for this country. And it was. Rural low information whites versus a diverse & college educated electorate that is urban based. I personally believe Trump is a con-man who knew who his audience was and, along with the rest of the GOP, sold a steady diet of fear, anger and ignorance. People voted how they voted but we are already starting to see how badly those voters got played. I feel like he was the worst of all possible options. That the man can't control himself with his Twitter account is something that should give everyone pause. Or in my case, scare the living crap out of people. And no one should use I'm just a simple person from the south as an excuse to not educate oneself about the issues and to find out what the reality of any given situation is. The information is out there. People should turn off Fox News & conservative talk radio and do their own research. Because honestly, the mainstream media sucks. Some outlets just suck worse, and lie, more than others.
And I'm a straight, white 53 year old male who believes black lives matter, that we are a nation built quite literally on immigrants, the choices women make with their own bodies should be left up to them, that people should be able to worship whatever they want, that people should be able to marry whomever they love & that gay couples are just as worthy as straight couple and that they deserve equal protections under the law. Full stop. So yeah, there you go. Peace.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 8:14:29 GMT
The real question is why he changed his name from The Monk to The Master. He lost the habit? If the other places were Doctor Who forums, then I'm sorry, but it sounds more then fair. Doctor Who has embraced the LGBT community very publicly since the revival begun (not to menticon during during The Wilderness Years in print) and you find yourself in a space where such views would be unacceptable. Please do moderate yourself. Kids have grown up watching the revival series and accepted themselves, as have many adults. That shouldn't be up for debate for a show which has embraced the LGBT community. We are also very much not a modern invention.
Mmm, there's evidence of homosexuality and transsexuality in pre-conquest American cultures such as the Aztecs or the Mayans, the Japanese practiced the custom socially for thousands of years and the French legalised it in the nineteenth century. Even going so far back as Ancient Rome and Greece, the practice was known to exist in the public eye as something that was widely accepted. Aristotle and Socrates are often regarded as bisexual by historians as that wasn't considered unusual for the time. Nor are they considered lesser thinkers and philosophers because of it. There's a historical precedent for it, well, everywhere, really. Eurasia, Australia, the Americas, even Africa.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Nov 30, 2016 10:26:18 GMT
What a belter this thread is! Ulyssessarcher, good on you for speaking your mind honestly and for the good you say you do in your local community. I cant agree with any of your religious stuff though, i just think people who hang on any religion to be ever so slightly bonkers. You are from the Deep South though and Im from rural Lancashire, so i cant even pretend put your upbringing and environment in to context so i wont even try. What unites us though is our love of a good audio drama, mostly Dr Who and BF, which just shows how far reaching it all is. I agree with this, I can respect Ulyssessarcher for having his own personal views on these issues, and I'm glad than this forum is tolerant and balanced enough that these viewpoints can be discussed in a polite manner, but as a non religious Englishman in my mid 20's your viewpoints on these issues are wholly alien to me (frankly I find the concept of believing in a magic all seing divine entity slightly crazy, i.m.o religion has lead to more trouble than success and I'm often baffled as to why it still has a place in modern society, this may be a difference of culture as much as an age thing- but of the three or four hundred other kids I went to school and college with I was aware of no more than twenty people who were religious, few of them devoutly ) I'm completely in favour of gay marriage and abortion rights (i.m.o religion has no place in goverment policy nor should people seek to impose their personal believes (or lack there of) on other people, it's patronizing and arrogant-Americans have freedom of speech enshrined in their constitution, but it seems to me as an outsider some of your politicians are only OK with it if it applies to the White Christian majority), climate change is certainly real and doing untold damage to our precious world, and I although I can understand your desire to honor your forefathers, from an outsiders perspective the Confederate states were slave states and traitors to your country, who died generations ago, personally as much as I'd respect them for fighting for their convictions I'd be appalled to be descended from such people and slightly perplexed that the Southern states haven't moved past it yet. I have similar problems with some Brits who defend the British Empire as a brilliant thing and something to be proud of... Apologies if I've offended you Uylsessarcher-not my intention at all, like ljwilson I've grown up and live in a totally different culture and upbringing, as much as I disagree with you, I can't and never will understand your perspective on these issues, but I can certainly respect you for voicing your opinion in just a open manner.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 1, 2016 8:05:05 GMT
Well, I'm glad a few of you got it.
I started this thread to show the diversity of me. So folks could get to know me, I was brought up in church, and cant change that. Not a Catholic church, but a Christian church nonetheless, goin to church Sunday morning, Sunday evening, Wednesday evening, all the vacation Bible schools, and revivals, from the time you can remember, sort of sticks with you, and having grand parents who were well known as part of a fairly well known quartet, means I had a high dose of the Bible, and of God. Alas, I am straying from my point.
I am what I am, I hold the doors for dang near everyone, I say sir and maam, I try to be good to everyone, and I struggle with my sinful nature everyday.
My goal in life, from the time I can remember was to be a better father to my kids than what I had, one who left when I was 10. My wife never worked, cause I wouldn't allow it, she had a much harder job than I did, she raised 4 kids, I just paid the bills. Now, my son is being a better father than I was, and that makes me prouder than I can express in mere words.
I brought my kids up to treat everyone equal, and with my in-laws and my grandparents generations, that was hard to achieve, most of you problably don't know what it's like to go to a family dinner, and half the talk there be about black folks, and not calling them nice names either.
My mother tried to shield me from most of it, mostly my father's family, and then my in laws, so my wife had much the same upbringing I did, without much of the church, and when I thought my family was bad, her's was way worse. But, we cant choose our relatives, only our friends.
I treat a woman like a lady, and my lady like a queen. I am very damn old fashioned. And that, I think is one of my best qualities.
I didn't start this to start trouble, just to let you know what I believe, and to try to show you that even a far right wing nut like me, is a doctor who fan, I would love world peace, but it aint gonna happen, not in any of our lifetimes. But, cant we find some middle ground somewhere? There's always hope.
Take care now.
PS, if you do pray, don't forget the folks in Gatlinburg, my daughter was up there Monday night, helping with the wounded, in the middle of a firestorm, to say I was damn proud, was another understatement.
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Post by theotherjosh on Dec 1, 2016 15:32:08 GMT
Well, I'm glad a few of you got it. I didn't start this to start trouble, just to let you know what I believe, and to try to show you that even a far right wing nut like me, is a doctor who fan, I would love world peace, but it aint gonna happen, not in any of our lifetimes. But, cant we find some middle ground somewhere? There's always hope. I don't want this to seem like a trick question, because this is the internet and it's not an uncommon rhetorical trick to draw out someone with whom you disagree in order to launch an attack on their position. I'll be frank and state that I hold different values than you do, but I am interested in where you’re coming from. It does seem to me that the ideals that you espouse are at odds to what I perceive as the ideals of Doctor Who. My question for you is what do you like about the show? What about it resonates with you?
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 1, 2016 17:43:11 GMT
Well, I'm glad a few of you got it. I didn't start this to start trouble, just to let you know what I believe, and to try to show you that even a far right wing nut like me, is a doctor who fan, I would love world peace, but it aint gonna happen, not in any of our lifetimes. But, cant we find some middle ground somewhere? There's always hope. I don't want this to seem like a trick question, because this is the internet and it's not an uncommon rhetorical trick to draw out someone with whom you disagree in order to launch an attack on their position. I'll be frank and state that I hold different values than you do, but I am interested in where you’re coming from. It does seem to me that the ideals that you espouse are at odds to what I perceive as the ideals of Doctor Who. My question for you is what do you like about the show? What about it resonates with you? The fantasy of it. Being able to travel through time. An ancient race who have appointed themselves overlords of time and space, because they believe themselves to be virtually immortal, all kinds of things resonate with me about doctor who. I was hooked in the 70's when Tom Baker was showing up on the local PBS station. I love that he strives to make everyone, human and alien, at least safe, if not happy
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 1, 2016 17:51:38 GMT
And I'm a straight, white 53 year old male who believes black lives matter, that we are a nation built quite literally on immigrants, the choices women make with their own bodies should be left up to them, that people should be able to worship whatever they want, that people should be able to marry whomever they love & that gay couples are just as worthy as straight couple and that they deserve equal protections under the law. Full stop. So yeah, there you go. Peace. I believe all lives matter, but I also believe if you take a life, in cold blood, you forfeit your own. We are built on the backs of immigrants, but also a nation of laws, and the law gives immigrants a right way to enter this country. The choices women make should be left up to them, to a point, just as suicide is illegal, it shows that not everyone is capable of making proper decisions when it comes to their own well being. People should be able to worship anything or anyone they want. People should be able to be with a single partner of their choosing, having the same protection and benefits under the law.
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Post by jasonward on Dec 1, 2016 18:17:42 GMT
No it's not, it was decriminalised in the US at the Federal level some years ago, some states that adhere to common law system of law have not decriminalised it, but have like Virginia reduced the penalty to nothing. However, as fewer and fewer states rely on common law, and instead are moving all law over to statute, and none have formally criminalised suicide, fewer and fewer states have any law prohibiting suicide at all, and in those remaining few that do, prosecutions are extremely rare. In Montana, Oregon and Washington there are laws that go so far as to legalise (in certain circumstances) assisted suicide. In the UK, it hasn't been a crime since 1961 and has basically never been a crime in Scotland.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 1, 2016 19:44:18 GMT
If someone attempts suicide they will be effectively arrested until a doctor says they can go home, and no longer poses a danger to themselves. If someone commits suicide there's no punishment necessary.
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Post by jasonward on Dec 1, 2016 19:52:24 GMT
... black lives matter ... ... all lives matter ... And by this hangs at best a fundamental misunderstanding or at worst a disingenuous undermining of what "black lives matter" really stands for. Of course all lives matter, The Black Lives Matter movement is not attempting to make Black lives more important that other peoples lives, they are attempting to get equality. they are attempting to address the racial profiling and bias so heavily present in the US justice system.
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Post by jasonward on Dec 1, 2016 19:58:32 GMT
If someone attempts suicide they will be effectively arrested until a doctor says they can go home, and no longer poses a danger to themselves. If someone commits suicide there's no punishment necessary. Firstly at least in the UK, that's just not true, you would only be detained under The Mental Health Act if you were a danger to other people. I am told by a UK Doctor who has practised in the US that you are far more likely to be detained there, however, being detained by a Doctor because you have a mental health issue is a very very long way from being criminal or from making what you did a crime, it also removes it from the realms of morality, it's a health issue.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Dec 1, 2016 20:01:57 GMT
And I'm a straight, white 53 year old male who believes black lives matter, that we are a nation built quite literally on immigrants, the choices women make with their own bodies should be left up to them, that people should be able to worship whatever they want, that people should be able to marry whomever they love & that gay couples are just as worthy as straight couple and that they deserve equal protections under the law. Full stop. So yeah, there you go. Peace. I believe all lives matter, but I also believe if you take a life, in cold blood, you forfeit your own. We are built on the backs of immigrants, but also a nation of laws, and the law gives immigrants a right way to enter this country. The choices women make should be left up to them, to a point, just as suicide is illegal, it shows that not everyone is capable of making proper decisions when it comes to their own well being. People should be able to worship anything or anyone they want. People should be able to be with a single partner of their choosing, having the same protection and benefits under the law. All lives matter is kind of a rhetorical trick. Of course all lives matter but when you are talking about the criminal justice system and how much more often people of color are likely to be stopped, arrested, incarcerated and killed by police in relation to that of white people, well, the numbers stagger the mind. And I say this as someone who comes from a family of law enforcement and knows that what we ask of today's police is something almost impossible. I also know that the majority of law enforcement are good people who wake up every day with the intention of doing the right thing while serving & protecting the community of which they are a part. People of color don't need to be treated differently, they need to be treated fairly and in relation to white people like me. That is what people mean when they say black lives matter. Immigration. You do know that illegal immigration is effectively at zero, right? That the people going back to Mexico equals out the people coming into this country. You also know that programs like social security would collapse if we deported everyone here illegally, right? And I ask these questions not to be confrontational but because I listen to Fox News a lot and these are things that they chose not to tell their viewers. How long do you think calm would last if women started telling men what they can do with their own bodies is their choice, up to a point? I've known several women who have had abortions and to a woman, it was the hardest choice they have ever had to make. It wasn't something any of them were hysterical or irrational about. I had a friend who I took to the clinic and we had to go through a picket line of pro-lifers. And the things those people said to my friend, to me, were the most hateful & vile words I have ever heard one person say to another. I'm familiar enough with the Bible to know none of what they were doing was Christian. And that was the start of the abuse. I don't like abortion. None of the women I know like abortion. It's the thing the pro-life crowd just doesn't get. Pro-life/pro-choice, both sides want the same thing. We all want fewer abortions. So please don't trivialize the choice of a person as being improper when it comes to something like that. None of what I've written is meant to be angry. You want speak freely, so do I. Peace.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 1, 2016 20:06:20 GMT
And by this hangs at best a fundamental misunderstanding or at worst a disingenuous undermining of what "black lives matter" really stands. Of course all lives matter, The Black Lives Matter movement is not attempting to make Black lives more important that other peoples lives, they are attempting to get equality. they are attempting to address the racial profiling and bias so heavily present in the US justice system. let me ask you, if I may? The officer cleared of all wrong doing today in Charlotte. Do you believe he was in the right or wrong? And all those witnesses that have now been proven liars, what should their punishment be for hindering the investigation? Cause I don't know
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Post by jasonward on Dec 1, 2016 20:10:35 GMT
And by this hangs at best a fundamental misunderstanding or at worst a disingenuous undermining of what "black lives matter" really stands. Of course all lives matter, The Black Lives Matter movement is not attempting to make Black lives more important that other peoples lives, they are attempting to get equality. they are attempting to address the racial profiling and bias so heavily present in the US justice system. let me ask you, if I may? The officer cleared of all wrong doing today in Charlotte. Do you believe he was in the right or wrong? And all those witnesses that have now been proven liars, what should their punishment be for hindering the investigation? Cause I don't know Sorry I know practically nothing about the case or original incident beyond a few memories of the original headlines, I am unable to offer any comment it. EDIT: Just read NYTimes report on the press briefing given by the Mecklenburg County DA in which he presented a case and evidence saying the shooting was justified. Overall I still know too little to comment about the case. However I will say in the case of eye witnesses and the differing accounts, it is probable despite the disparity in accounts that none of them lied, eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable even when they have no motivation to lie. You can read more about the issues with Eye Witness testimony: www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/people.howstuffworks.com/eyewitnesses-unreliable.htmwww.simplypsychology.org/eyewitness-testimony.htmlagora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue%20One/fisher&tversky.htm
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 1, 2016 20:11:54 GMT
My wife never worked, cause I wouldn't allow it, she had a much harder job than I did, she raised 4 kids, I just paid the bills... I treat a woman like a lady, and my lady like a queen. Don't those two sentences kind of contradict eachother. If you treat "your lady" like a queen, then surely you don't decide what she is or isn't allowed to do. A queen would work if she wanted to work, and you would be the one to raise the kids if she wanted you to. I'm not saying that your wife isn't happy with the arrangement. I'm just saying that it is a bit odd that you can tell her that she isn't allowed to do something.
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 1, 2016 20:18:10 GMT
I don't want this to seem like a trick question, because this is the internet and it's not an uncommon rhetorical trick to draw out someone with whom you disagree in order to launch an attack on their position. I'll be frank and state that I hold different values than you do, but I am interested in where you’re coming from. It does seem to me that the ideals that you espouse are at odds to what I perceive as the ideals of Doctor Who. My question for you is what do you like about the show? What about it resonates with you? The fantasy of it. Being able to travel through time. An ancient race who have appointed themselves overlords of time and space, because they believe themselves to be virtually immortal, all kinds of things resonate with me about doctor who. I was hooked in the 70's when Tom Baker was showing up on the local PBS station. I love that he strives to make everyone, human and alien, at least safe, if not happy So, what do you think about Captain Jack, John Barrowman, Vastra and Jenny, Russel Davies, and John Nathan Turner? The show has many openly gay people behind the scenes (Barrowman is married to a man) and has openly gay characters in the show. Jack comes from a society where everyone is bisexual and Jenny and Vastra are married. The show clearly depicts homosexuality and gay marriage as completely normal and acceptable.
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Post by theotherjosh on Dec 1, 2016 21:00:16 GMT
The fantasy of it. Being able to travel through time. An ancient race who have appointed themselves overlords of time and space, because they believe themselves to be virtually immortal, all kinds of things resonate with me about doctor who. I was hooked in the 70's when Tom Baker was showing up on the local PBS station. I love that he strives to make everyone, human and alien, at least safe, if not happy Cool. Thanks very much for your reply.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 2, 2016 7:33:27 GMT
I believe all lives matter, but I also believe if you take a life, in cold blood, you forfeit your own. We are built on the backs of immigrants, but also a nation of laws, and the law gives immigrants a right way to enter this country. The choices women make should be left up to them, to a point, just as suicide is illegal, it shows that not everyone is capable of making proper decisions when it comes to their own well being. People should be able to worship anything or anyone they want. People should be able to be with a single partner of their choosing, having the same protection and benefits under the law. Immigration. You do know that illegal immigration is effectively at zero, right? That the people going back to Mexico equals out the people coming into this country. You also know that programs like social security would collapse if we deported everyone here illegally, right? And I ask these questions not to be confrontational but because I listen to Fox News a lot and these are things that they chose not to tell their viewers. I will be the first to admit, that I am not near the brightest crayon in the box, so please educate me, as to how, if every illegal alien in this country now, was deported, that would collapse social security. Thanks.
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