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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 21, 2021 1:37:48 GMT
I haven’t finished set two yet so if my question/statement is answered just ignore me. But. I don’t think the fact that Anya and Mark are his “companions” this set is that contradictory to the next doctor. Its not like the doctor has a choice for all intents and purposes they are companions of circumstance. Same with river, although i guess she fits into the one off companion but still, much different to rose martha and donna which is the thing that the doctors avoiding in the specials. Again though if this is addressed or theres somthing specific he’s said or done later one in dalek universe 2 thats promoted this discussion then ignore me Without going into Dalek Universe spoilers, it’s not because of them being companions that I suggest this. If I had an issue with that (I don’t as per the reasons you laid out) I would probably argue for them to go after Planet of the Dead if anything. I just think thematically Dalek Universe and the River Song set work well as a transition from Journey’s End to The Next Doctor, and it generously covers that first specials gap. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 8:09:55 GMT
I haven’t finished set two yet so if my question/statement is answered just ignore me. But. I don’t think the fact that Anya and Mark are his “companions” this set is that contradictory to the next doctor. Its not like the doctor has a choice for all intents and purposes they are companions of circumstance. Same with river, although i guess she fits into the one off companion but still, much different to rose martha and donna which is the thing that the doctors avoiding in the specials. Again though if this is addressed or theres somthing specific he’s said or done later one in dalek universe 2 thats promoted this discussion then ignore me Without going into Dalek Universe spoilers, it’s not because of them being companions that I suggest this. If I had an issue with that (I don’t as per the reasons you laid out) I would probably argue for them to go after Planet of the Dead if anything. I just think thematically Dalek Universe and the River Song set work well as a transition from Journey’s End to The Next Doctor, and it generously covers that first specials gap. Thats fair enough and i agree i think it works. It has to be before planet of the dead anyways so might as well put it as early as can be |
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Post by sherlock on Jul 21, 2021 8:17:54 GMT
Is the Doctor actually against having more companions in The Next Doctor? He’s certainly mournful for recent losses (“they break my heart”) but doesn’t say anything firmly about not having companions again till Planet of the Dead, from my memory at least.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 21, 2021 10:49:58 GMT
Is the Doctor actually against having more companions in The Next Doctor? He’s certainly mournful for recent losses (“they break my heart”) but doesn’t say anything firmly about not having companions again till Planet of the Dead, from my memory at least. I mean it would be pretty pointless to try and argue that he’s okay with companions during this exchange knowing the context of Planet of the Dead and The End of Time. LAKE: Tell me one thing. All those facts and figures I saw of the Doctor's life, you were never alone. All those bright and shining companions. But not any more? DOCTOR: No. |
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 21, 2021 10:57:21 GMT
It’d be nice if Dalek Universe ended up being pre-The Next Doctor, with the Doctor making a firm decision at the end that he no longer wishes to take on companions. Possibly with a suggestion that he fancies visiting a Christmas market or something as a cheeky lead in. That way it’d be plotted out so that right after Journey’s End he goes into the River Song set with Expiry Dating, plus the other two stories and probably some of the other narrated 10 content and cameos that have appeared in other BF ranges already. That gets him back into a degree of normalcy but he’s still not far off Journey’s End and the loss of Donna is still raw. Then he gets pulled into the events of Dalek Universe and everything is brought bubbling to the surface and leads him to make his final decision that he no longer wishes to travel with companions, leading if not directly then just emotionally into the events of The Next Doctor. And then hopefully we would pick up on the companion angst between The Next Doctor and Planet of the Dead with the Tenth Doctor, Classic Companions set. I know I’m shoving a lot into one gap here but I think it makes sense with BF to start in the earliest possible gap and then work forwards. Take the Doctor on an emotional journey from the Series 4 finale, to his adventures with River Song, then his reunion with Anya and Mark until eventually we get to The Next Doctor, where’s its almost back to business as usual for him, except one major change in that he’s now adamant that he travels alone. I love this suggestion. It’d be brilliant if it panned out like that. I’m inclined to say it won’t, just based on the comments that Big Finish were roughly working in the Next Doctor - Planet of the Dead gap with Dalek Universe. However, if you don’t bank on any mention of a lead in to TND and Dalek Universe ends on a sombre note, I think your proposed run between Journeys End & TND would work really well. I’ll hold out on Tenth Doctor, Classic Companions as I do think BF might just as easy cram them into The End of Time gap. K9 runs through the three stories, so they seem like they’ll be consecutive at least, we just need to hold out on how the Doctor is to determine the placement. |
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 21, 2021 11:50:22 GMT
I am *somewhat* sceptical of the post-Next Doctor placement, purely because Dorney seemed to be working from Captain Spirit's suggestion of that placement and he basically just said that he thought it was supposed to be somewhere around that time but other people would probably be better at picking out the exact placement.
So I feel fairly confident that it’s before Planet of the Dead, but I’m not yet entirely convinced that it’s for sure after The Next Doctor.
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 21, 2021 12:01:40 GMT
I am *somewhat* sceptical of the post-Next Doctor placement, purely because Dorney seemed to be working from Captain Spirit's suggestion of that placement and he basically just said that he thought it was supposed to be somewhere around that time but other people would probably be better at picking out the exact placement. So I feel fairly confident that it’s before Planet of the Dead, but I’m not yet entirely convinced that it’s for sure after The Next Doctor. Oh absolutely. What I was getting at is that, based on comments made, I wouldn’t expect Dalek Universe to lead into The Next Doctor in some way and solidify that placement. If that was the case, I’d imagine we’d have been told a more specific placement than being around that time / stories. I think we can be more than fairly confident it’s not set anytime after Planet of the Dead. I really struggle with the idea the Doctor wouldn’t refer to the knocking prophecy, given how much he’s put through the wringer in Dalek Universe (and would also have cause to mention it given the events of The Wrong Woman). |
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Post by sherlock on Jul 21, 2021 12:04:13 GMT
Tbh I kinda like the placement between The Next Doctor and Planet of the Dead just because there’s not much else there, whereas between Series 4 and The Next Doctor has The Darksmith Legacy and Heather’s DWA run already.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 21, 2021 12:12:26 GMT
Tbh I kinda like the placement between The Next Doctor and Planet of the Dead just because there’s not much else there, whereas between Series 4 and The Next Doctor has The Darksmith Legacy and Heather’s DWA run already. There’s another thing - I just can’t see Dalek Universe taking place after either of those sets of stories. I mean maybe the Darksmith legacy at a push but definitely not the Heather and Wolfie stuff. Although the DWA comics don’t really fit neatly or explicitly into any particular gap as it is so there’s not much helping it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 12:18:52 GMT
On the subject of Dalek Universe, where are we on placement with it in relation to the Doctor jumping time tracks to the pre-Time War past in Prisoner of the Daleks? Same as before or with any alteration? I know that Prisoner left the exact reason why such a thing happened fairly open to interpretation at the time.
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Post by constonks on Jul 21, 2021 17:06:47 GMT
Tbh I kinda like the placement between The Next Doctor and Planet of the Dead just because there’s not much else there, whereas between Series 4 and The Next Doctor has The Darksmith Legacy and Heather’s DWA run already. For what it's worth, both of those runs started AFTER The Next Doctor aired, so I don't really know why the TARDIS Wiki puts them before? |
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Post by sherlock on Jul 21, 2021 17:49:47 GMT
Tbh I kinda like the placement between The Next Doctor and Planet of the Dead just because there’s not much else there, whereas between Series 4 and The Next Doctor has The Darksmith Legacy and Heather’s DWA run already. For what it's worth, both of those runs started AFTER The Next Doctor aired, so I don't really know why the TARDIS Wiki puts them before? I guess cos the Doctor doesn’t appear adverse to new companions joining at all. I assume that’s the case for The Darksmith Legacy anyway as I’ve only got the first book of that run. Certainly from memory, he doesn’t have any objections to Heather coming aboard in DWA. I kinda like that idea of the DWA run coming right before The Next Doctor. At the start of the story he seems refreshed and the way he talks about the events of Journey’s End to Jackson and Rosita makes it seem like sometime has passed. The more light-hearted DWA run handily gives the Doctor a bit of a break from end of Series 4 angst and accounts for a reasonable amount of time, so it kinda works there. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 17:54:16 GMT
Or easier yet, he just didn’t want to travel with Jackson Lake and Lady Christina. They smelled, or somthing 🤷♂️
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 21, 2021 21:21:20 GMT
Tbh I kinda like the placement between The Next Doctor and Planet of the Dead just because there’s not much else there, whereas between Series 4 and The Next Doctor has The Darksmith Legacy and Heather’s DWA run already. For what it's worth, both of those runs started AFTER The Next Doctor aired, so I don't really know why the TARDIS Wiki puts them before? Basically because one single person controls the Doctor timelines more or less and won’t let anyone change them. And his view is that the Rose the Cat comic establishes that the Doctor wants to take on new companions after Journey’s End, therefore the DWA and Darksmith stories go before The Next Doctor and then reason that he decides not to take on companions anymore is undocumented / due to the loss of a companion other than Donna. I’ve tried to argue against this but there’s no hope. Which is annoying because people do tend to take the wiki stuff more seriously. I do much prefer the Eyespider version of the timeline, but even then it gets the Titan comics placements wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 7:07:28 GMT
For what it's worth, both of those runs started AFTER The Next Doctor aired, so I don't really know why the TARDIS Wiki puts them before? Basically because one single person controls the Doctor timelines more or less and won’t let anyone change them. And his view is that the Rose the Cat comic establishes that the Doctor wants to take on new companions after Journey’s End, therefore the DWA and Darksmith stories go before The Next Doctor and then reason that he decides not to take on companions anymore is undocumented / due to the loss of a companion other than Donna. I’ve tried to argue against this but there’s no hope. Which is annoying because people do tend to take the wiki stuff more seriously. I do much prefer the Eyespider version of the timeline, but even then it gets the Titan comics placements wrong. That's why in the land of continuity, cross-referencing is king. Real-world history books have similar problems from time to time. I tend to look for, at least, two timelines with their respective justifications on placement before making a decision where something goes. Failing that, go straight to the source where possible. The tie-breaker in a particularly tight knot of continuity tends to be what works character-wise, rather than strictest fact, as individual memory is inherently unreliable (unless you're Mel and have eidetic recall, though sometimes even then...). Tonally, Dalek Universe has so far felt more like the Specials than Series 4, which leans me more towards a later placement, but it's too early to say anthing certain yet. It'll depend on whether Mark and/or Anya survive (or thrive in) this boxset or not. |
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 26, 2021 15:58:00 GMT
So I decided to watch The Waters of Mars last night and I picked up on something interesting.
The Doctor describes the events of Planet of the Dead as happening "just recently".
ADELAIDE: It can't be stopped. Don't die with us.
DOCTOR: No, because someone told me just recently. They said I was going to die. They said he will knock four times, and I think I know what that means, and it doesn't mean right here, right now, because I don't hear anyone knocking, do you?
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 26, 2021 16:06:35 GMT
Basically because one single person controls the Doctor timelines more or less and won’t let anyone change them. And his view is that the Rose the Cat comic establishes that the Doctor wants to take on new companions Hang on, Rose the Cat is canon but "Dimensions of Time" isn't? |
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 26, 2021 16:09:55 GMT
Basically because one single person controls the Doctor timelines more or less and won’t let anyone change them. And his view is that the Rose the Cat comic establishes that the Doctor wants to take on new companions Hang on, Rose the Cat is canon but "Dimensions of Time" isn't? Yeah pretty much. On the regular wiki anyway. The timelines however are a free for all and literally anything and everything is on there. You name it. The Daft Dimension from DWM, the Alien Babies comic from DWA, videos of the cast wishing viewers a merry Christmas, literal fan fiction. There’s all sorts. |
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Post by sherlock on Jul 26, 2021 16:15:11 GMT
So I decided to watch The Waters of Mars last night and I picked up on something interesting. The Doctor describes the events of Planet of the Dead as happening "just recently". ADELAIDE: It can't be stopped. Don't die with us. DOCTOR: No, because someone told me just recently. They said I was going to die. They said he will knock four times, and I think I know what that means, and it doesn't mean right here, right now, because I don't hear anyone knocking, do you? A lot of stories commonly put between Planet and Waters don’t necessarily have to be there. Strictly speaking the only thing I can think of that is definitively in that gap is the IDW run which ends with the Doctor going to Mars, leading into Waters. Titan initially claimed their run started near Planet, but who knows if that still holds true. So stuff like Wedding of Sarah Jane, DWM run and I suspect most of the novels could be shuffled to either pre -Planet or post- Waters with relative ease. |
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Post by sherlock on Jul 26, 2021 16:18:41 GMT
Basically because one single person controls the Doctor timelines more or less and won’t let anyone change them. And his view is that the Rose the Cat comic establishes that the Doctor wants to take on new companions Hang on, Rose the Cat is canon but "Dimensions of Time" isn't? Yes. The Wiki’s validity rules are pretty much entirely arbitrary at this point. An episode of Thunderbirds has recently become valid cos apparently a picture of a Dalek appears at one point (I’ve never spotted it). |
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