|
|
Post by themeddlingmonk on Oct 20, 2021 23:53:24 GMT
I’ve just been rereading the final Titan Comics Year 3 story, The Good Companion and I’ve come across a pretty huge piece of continuity.
We’ve had a few discussions in the past about where these adventures take place but it turns out we had a fixed and explicit answer all along.
I felt like I was going crazy because Nick Abadzis had talked so much about how it was supposed to be set between Planet of the Dead and The Waters of Mars and now it was all building to the latter story, but every fibre of my being was saying that the final story implies a post-Waters of Mars setting with events leading up to Day of the Doctor and The End of Time.
Well. The Doctor actually saves a planet from the Red Carnivorous Maw in The Good Companion and it’s a rather significant part of the plot. And as many of us may know, thats one of the things that the Doctor claims he did between The Waters of Mars and The End of Time. Funnily enough it’s the one thing I thought hadn’t been covered by expanded media but actually it’s been there for years.
So I’m gonna suggest slotting the Doctor’s Titan comics adventures between the events of Time Lord Victorious and Dalek Universe.
|
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Oct 21, 2021 9:03:34 GMT
So with that in mind the specials era probably now looks like-
Series 4
The Forgotten
Ten & River: Expiry Dating
The Darksmith Legacy
DWA (Heather & Wolfie)
The Next Doctor
DWM (Majenta Pryce)
Ten & River: Precious Annihilation
Planet of the Dead
2009 novels
Out of Time 2
The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith
Ten & River: Ghosts
IDW (Emily & Matthew)
The Waters of Mars
TLV
Out of Time 1
The Shattered Hourglass
Titan (Gabby & Cindy)
The Edge of Reality
Dalek Universe
The Day of the Doctor
Echoes of Extinction
DWA (Post-Heather)
The Advent of Fear
Last Chance
The Doctor on My Shoulder
The End of Time
Must admit the post-Waters section is looking quite full now.
|
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Oct 21, 2021 9:57:48 GMT
Good shout there, themeddlingmonk. I must confess when I read The Good Companion a few months ago I forgot the reference to the Red Carnivorous Maw in The End of Time! I think the Titan run was always intended to be between Planet of the Dead and The Waters of Mars to begin with, but as it grew bigger and they started linking to The Day of the Doctor (same with Eleven’s run), the placement moved out. My stance was avoiding companions between The Waters of Mars and The Day of the Doctor, but I think that ship has sailed. I can now see the potential in a balance of the Doctor travelling alone, brooding and repenting for Time Lord Victorious and also getting back on the right path by having companions on board; either resulting in them suffering a tragic fate or his demise looming. I think that’s a decent list, sherlock. It doesn’t all work entirely, as everything links back to the show but not necessarily the other mediums in terms of the Doctor’s characterisation, but I don’t think it ever will! We’ve got at least another five audios that’ll no doubt fit in the Specials gap on the way; Out of Time 3, War Master and Classic Companions. |
|
|
|
Post by themeddlingmonk on Oct 21, 2021 10:46:04 GMT
Good shout there, themeddlingmonk. I must confess when I read The Good Companion a few months ago I forgot the reference to the Red Carnivorous Maw in The End of Time! I think the Titan run was always intended to be between Planet of the Dead and The Waters of Mars to begin with, but as it grew bigger and they started linking to The Day of the Doctor (same with Eleven’s run), the placement moved out. My stance was avoiding companions between The Waters of Mars and The Day of the Doctor, but I think that ship has sailed. I can now see the potential in a balance of the Doctor travelling alone, brooding and repenting for Time Lord Victorious and also getting back on the right path by having companions on board; either resulting in them suffering a tragic fate or his demise looming. I think that’s a decent list, sherlock. It doesn’t all work entirely, as everything links back to the show but not necessarily the other mediums in terms of the Doctor’s characterisation, but I don’t think it ever will! We’ve got at least another five audios that’ll no doubt fit in the Specials gap on the way; Out of Time 3, War Master and Classic Companions. I would agree with you about it originally being intended to go between Planet of the Dead and Waters of Mars if it wasn’t for one thing. Right back at the beginning of the run, in Gabby’s second story she sees a vision of an Ood that tells her she’s “changing the now” and this ood is later revealed in The Good Companion to have been the Moment trying to communicate with Gabby but struggling to get the right interface. So right from the start this was being built towards, even down to the apparition of an ood haunting the Doctor’s travels. Now whether it was always intended to go this way or if it was a random hook that was developed later, I don’t know. Nick Abadzis did say in a lot of interviews that it goes before Waters of Mars but he also talked a bit about how 100 years could have passed between Waters of Mars and The End of Time and it still would’ve been soon for the Doctor. |
|
|
|
Post by themeddlingmonk on Oct 21, 2021 13:07:32 GMT
Now the question is. Do we place the events the Doctor mentioned in the order he mentioned them or do we not worry about it?
The order he listed them would be:
The Waters of Mars
Out of Time (The Phosphorous Carousel of the Magellan Gestadt)
Titan Comics (The Red Carnivorous Maw)
The Shattered Hourglass (Naming a Galaxy Alison)
The Day of the Doctor (Marrying Good Queen Bess)
The End of Time
|
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Oct 21, 2021 13:12:58 GMT
Now the question is. Do we place the events the Doctor mentioned in the order he mentioned them or do we not worry about it? The order he listed them would be: The Waters of Mars Out of Time (The Phosphorous Carousel of the Magellan Gestadt) Titan Comics (The Red Carnivorous Maw) The Shattered Hourglass (Naming a Galaxy Alison) The Day of the Doctor (Marrying Good Queen Bess) The End of Time I think he seems to be listing randomly rather then in any particular order and Shattered Hourglass itself feels quite close to Waters |
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Jan 30, 2022 17:59:29 GMT
The Ordeal of Peladon brings us a surprise appearance from the Tenth Doctor. No firm placement, but given it’s a fleeting appearance and the Doctor is very reluctant to do anything given it’s a fixed point, it would make sense to be post-The Waters of Mars / Time Lord Victorious. I think it’d go nicely with The Shattered Hourglass, as a TLV epilogue before Echoes of Extinction gives us closure. |
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Feb 16, 2022 18:01:57 GMT
Fear of Flying isn’t 100% firm in the placement, except it uses the 2008 theme arrangement and references the Doctor’s loss of faith in humanity, which could be anywhere really. I think the last scene was implied to be during the Doctor’s farewell tour, but isn’t explicit.
|
|
|
|
Post by themeddlingmonk on Jun 8, 2022 12:25:46 GMT
{Out of Time 3: Wink}
It’s set between The Waters of Mars and The End of Time, unsurprisingly. It’s not said explicitly, but the TARDIS wants him to go somewhere and he refuses saying “not yet”.
When Six shows up, Ten is like “oh no not again”. So presumably all three Out of Time stories take place post Waters of Mars and close together.
The Doctor can open the TARDIS by clicking his fingers like in The End of Time and alludes to River Song at one point.
He also mentions the events of Blink as though that was the last time he encountered the Angels. So I’d also place this before the Titan comics where he meets them during The Weeping Angels of Mons.
Something like:
The Waters of Mars
TLV
Out of Time 1
The Shattered Hourglass
Out of Time 2: The Gates of Hell
Fear of Flying
Out of Time 3: Wink
Dreamland
Titan Comics: The Tenth Doctor
Dalek Universe
The Day of the Doctor
Echoes of Extinction
Last Chance
The End of Time
(The Jago & Litefoot Revival) |
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Jun 8, 2022 16:10:41 GMT
{Out of Time 3: Wink}
It’s set between The Waters of Mars and The End of Time, unsurprisingly. It’s not said explicitly, but the TARDIS wants him to go somewhere and he refuses saying “not yet”.
When Six shows up, Ten is like “oh no not again”. So presumably all three Out of Time stories take place post Waters of Mars and close together.
The Doctor can open the TARDIS by clicking his fingers like in The End of Time and alludes to River Song at one point.
He also mentions the events of Blink as though that was the last time he encountered the Angels. So I’d also place this before the Titan comics where he meets them during The Weeping Angels of Mons.
Something like:
The Waters of Mars
TLV
Out of Time 1
The Shattered Hourglass
Out of Time 2: The Gates of Hell
Fear of Flying
Out of Time 3: Wink
Dreamland
Titan Comics: The Tenth Doctor
Dalek Universe
The Day of the Doctor
Echoes of Extinction
Last Chance
The End of Time
(The Jago & Litefoot Revival) Agreed. The closing scene also has the four drums beating in the background, so I think it’s more explicit than initially implied at the beginning of the episode. |
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Jun 16, 2022 13:54:37 GMT
Self-Defence Interesting placement for this. Seems explicitly pre-Planet of the Dead as the Doctor makes no mention of a pending rematch with the Master whatsoever. In fact at the beginning he seems to make a fleeting comment that I took as a nod to the Master's death in Last of the Time Lords. |
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Jun 17, 2022 22:32:27 GMT
Self-Defence Interesting placement for this. Seems explicitly pre-Planet of the Dead as the Doctor makes no mention of a pending rematch with the Master whatsoever. In fact at the beginning he seems to make a fleeting comment that I took as a nod to the Master's death in Last of the Time Lords. {Spoiler}
I’d go with between Series 3 and 4 personally. The Master senses he’s touched something of a live nerve when he asks the Doctor how he would cope in a universe without the Master, so I’d guess the Master’s apparent death in Last of the Time Lords is fresh for the Doctor. |
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Sept 15, 2022 8:27:51 GMT
Tenth Doctor, Classic Companions Nothing terribly concrete in this. No real references, but uses the 2008 theme and the Doctor invited Ace aboard at the end, but she declines. Suggests it’s when he’s a bit more open to companions, and inviting Ace specifically could be part of his post-TLV penance, given what Seven put her through, but that’s just my suggestion. |
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Sept 15, 2022 10:41:23 GMT
Tenth Doctor, Classic Companions Nothing terribly concrete in this. No real references, but uses the 2008 theme and the Doctor invited Ace aboard at the end, but she declines. Suggests it’s when he’s a bit more open to companions, and inviting Ace specifically could be part of his post-TLV penance, given what Seven put her through, but that’s just my suggestion. Him revisiting old friends could go well before The Next Doctor tbh, as there he reflects on past companions all eventually leaving him and moving on. Plus in that gap tends to be where Darksmith Legacy and DWA ends up and there he’s not totally against companions yet. But admittedly I haven’t heard this set, and don’t really intend to, so could be barking up wrong tree entirely. |
|
|
|
Post by themeddlingmonk on Sept 15, 2022 10:57:45 GMT
Tenth Doctor, Classic Companions Nothing terribly concrete in this. No real references, but uses the 2008 theme and the Doctor invited Ace aboard at the end, but she declines. Suggests it’s when he’s a bit more open to companions, and inviting Ace specifically could be part of his post-TLV penance, given what Seven put her through, but that’s just my suggestion. Him revisiting old friends could go well before The Next Doctor tbh, as there he reflects on past companions all eventually leaving him and moving on. Plus in that gap tends to be where Darksmith Legacy and DWA ends up and there he’s not totally against companions yet. But admittedly I haven’t heard this set, and don’t really intend to, so could be barking up wrong tree entirely. He’s not intentionally visiting old friends, he’s tracking down Time War fallout. It feels very post-DU to me. |
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Sept 15, 2022 11:00:35 GMT
Tenth Doctor, Classic Companions Nothing terribly concrete in this. No real references, but uses the 2008 theme and the Doctor invited Ace aboard at the end, but she declines. Suggests it’s when he’s a bit more open to companions, and inviting Ace specifically could be part of his post-TLV penance, given what Seven put her through, but that’s just my suggestion. Him revisiting old friends could go well before The Next Doctor tbh, as there he reflects on past companions all eventually leaving him and moving on. Plus in that gap tends to be where Darksmith Legacy and DWA ends up and there he’s not totally against companions yet. But admittedly I haven’t heard this set, and don’t really intend to, so could be barking up wrong tree entirely. I think you’ve made a fair point, but that’s not the vibe I get from the Doctor in Classic Companions at all. He’s not actively seeking anyone out; he bumps into K9, who’s monitoring Time War fallout, and then that leads to Leela, etc. He’s not unhappy to see them, but equally makes no reference to Donna, et al. The three stories don’t even follow on from each other, it’s just that the Doctor sticks with K9 throughout and then invites Ace aboard at the end. For me that feels like a natural continuation of him inviting Anya at the end of Dalek Universe and the history he has with Ace suits his penance in the aftermath of Time Lord Victorious. There’s nothing in the set to “cling” to whatsoever. If anything it’s K9’s set the Doctor temporarily tags along with! |
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Sept 15, 2022 11:26:39 GMT
With that in mind then, post-Series 4 probably goes something this-
Journey’s End
DWM: The Time of My Life
IDW: The Forgotten
Ten & River: Expiry Dating
Novel: The Sontaran Games
Novel: The Eyeless
BBC Audio: The Rising Night
The Darksmith Legacy
DWA (Heather & Wolfie)
The Next Doctor
2009 Storybook
DWM (Majenta)
BBC Audio: The Day of the Troll
Ten & River: Precious Annihilation
Peladon: The Ordeal of Peladon
Short Trip: Fear of Flying
Planet of the Dead
Novel: Judgement of the Judoon
Novel: The Slitheen Excursion
Novel: Prisoner of the Daleks
Novel: The Taking of Chelsea 426
Out of Time 2: The Gates of Hell
Novel: Autonomy
Novel: The Krillitane Storm
Novel: Keeping Up With The Jonses
Novel: The Bog Warrior
Ten & River: Ghosts
The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith
IDW: The Time Machination
IDW (Emily & Matthew)
The Waters of Mars
TLV: What the TARDIS Thought of “Time Lord Victorious”
TLV: The Knight, the Fool and the Dead
TLV: All Flesh is Grass [Chapters 1-3]
TLV: Tales of the Dark Times
TLV: The Minds of Magnox
TLV: All Flesh is Grass
Out of Time 1
Short Trip: The Shattered Hourglass
Out of Time 3: Wink
Dreamland
Titan (Gabby & Cindy)
Dalek Universe
The Day of the Doctor
TLV: Echoes of Extinction
Classic Companions
Website: The Advent of Fear
DWA (Post-Heather)
BBC Audio: The Final Voyage
BBC Audio: Dead Air
Novel: Code of the Krillitanes
Chronicle: Last Chance
Website: The Doctor on My Shoulder
The End of Time
-DWA: Lucky Heather
-Short Trip: The Jago & Litefoot Revival
|
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Sept 15, 2022 12:39:40 GMT
With that in mind then, post-Series 4 probably goes something this- Journey’s EndDWM: The Time of My LifeIDW: The ForgottenTen & River: Expiry DatingNovel: The Sontaran GamesNovel: The EyelessBBC Audio: The Rising NightThe Darksmith Legacy DWA (Heather & Wolfie) The Next Doctor2009 Storybook DWM (Majenta) BBC Audio: The Day of the TrollTen & River: Precious Annihilation
Peladon: The Ordeal of PeladonShort Trip: Fear of FlyingPlanet of the DeadNovel: Judgement of the JudoonNovel: The Slitheen Excursion
Novel: Prisoner of the DaleksNovel: The Taking of Chelsea 426Out of Time 2: The Gates of HellNovel: Autonomy
Novel: The Krillitane StormNovel: Keeping Up With The Jonses
Novel: The Bog WarriorTen & River: GhostsThe Wedding of Sarah Jane SmithIDW: The Time Machination
IDW (Emily & Matthew) The Waters of Mars
TLV: What the TARDIS Thought of “Time Lord Victorious”TLV: The Knight, the Fool and the Dead
TLV: All Flesh is Grass [Chapters 1-3] TLV: Tales of the Dark TimesTLV: The Minds of Magnox
TLV: All Flesh is GrassOut of Time 1 Short Trip: The Shattered Hourglass
Out of Time 3: Wink
DreamlandTitan (Gabby & Cindy) Dalek Universe The Day of the DoctorTLV: Echoes of ExtinctionClassic Companions
Website: The Advent of FearDWA (Post-Heather) BBC Audio: The Final Voyage
BBC Audio: Dead AirNovel: Code of the KrillitanesChronicle: Last ChanceWebsite: The Doctor on My ShoulderThe End of Time -DWA: Lucky Heather -Short Trip: The Jago & Litefoot Revival
Now that’s a marathon and a half! Great work. EDIT: I’d move Ordeal of Peladon to just after The Shattered Hourglass. The Doctor is very hesitant to amend a fixed point in time, so would tie in to his actions in The Waters of Mars / TLV and form part of a nice epilogue that comes to a close in Echoes of Extinction. |
|
|
|
Post by themeddlingmonk on Sept 15, 2022 12:53:32 GMT
With that in mind then, post-Series 4 probably goes something this- Journey’s EndDWM: The Time of My LifeIDW: The ForgottenTen & River: Expiry DatingNovel: The Sontaran GamesNovel: The EyelessBBC Audio: The Rising NightThe Darksmith Legacy DWA (Heather & Wolfie) The Next Doctor2009 Storybook DWM (Majenta) BBC Audio: The Day of the TrollTen & River: Precious Annihilation
Peladon: The Ordeal of PeladonShort Trip: Fear of FlyingPlanet of the DeadNovel: Judgement of the JudoonNovel: The Slitheen Excursion
Novel: Prisoner of the DaleksNovel: The Taking of Chelsea 426Out of Time 2: The Gates of HellNovel: Autonomy
Novel: The Krillitane StormNovel: Keeping Up With The Jonses
Novel: The Bog WarriorTen & River: GhostsThe Wedding of Sarah Jane SmithIDW: The Time Machination
IDW (Emily & Matthew) The Waters of Mars
TLV: What the TARDIS Thought of “Time Lord Victorious”TLV: The Knight, the Fool and the Dead
TLV: All Flesh is Grass [Chapters 1-3] TLV: Tales of the Dark TimesTLV: The Minds of Magnox
TLV: All Flesh is GrassOut of Time 1 Short Trip: The Shattered Hourglass
Out of Time 3: Wink
DreamlandTitan (Gabby & Cindy) Dalek Universe The Day of the DoctorTLV: Echoes of ExtinctionClassic Companions
Website: The Advent of FearDWA (Post-Heather) BBC Audio: The Final Voyage
BBC Audio: Dead AirNovel: Code of the KrillitanesChronicle: Last ChanceWebsite: The Doctor on My ShoulderThe End of Time -DWA: Lucky Heather -Short Trip: The Jago & Litefoot Revival
Just want to point out that The Gates of Hell would specifically not be directly after The Taking of Chelsea, as the Doctor considers trying again for the Hotel at the end of the book, but then changes his mind because he’s had enough of hotels after the events of the book, and decides to try again another time instead. |
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Oct 11, 2022 10:32:05 GMT
With that in mind then, post-Series 4 probably goes something this- Journey’s EndDWM: The Time of My LifeIDW: The ForgottenTen & River: Expiry DatingNovel: The Sontaran GamesNovel: The EyelessBBC Audio: The Rising NightThe Darksmith Legacy DWA (Heather & Wolfie) The Next Doctor2009 Storybook DWM (Majenta) BBC Audio: The Day of the TrollTen & River: Precious Annihilation
Peladon: The Ordeal of PeladonShort Trip: Fear of FlyingPlanet of the DeadNovel: Judgement of the JudoonNovel: The Slitheen Excursion
Novel: Prisoner of the DaleksNovel: The Taking of Chelsea 426Out of Time 2: The Gates of HellNovel: Autonomy
Novel: The Krillitane StormNovel: Keeping Up With The Jonses
Novel: The Bog WarriorTen & River: GhostsThe Wedding of Sarah Jane SmithIDW: The Time Machination
IDW (Emily & Matthew) The Waters of Mars
TLV: What the TARDIS Thought of “Time Lord Victorious”TLV: The Knight, the Fool and the Dead
TLV: All Flesh is Grass [Chapters 1-3] TLV: Tales of the Dark TimesTLV: The Minds of Magnox
TLV: All Flesh is GrassOut of Time 1 Short Trip: The Shattered Hourglass
Out of Time 3: Wink
DreamlandTitan (Gabby & Cindy) Dalek Universe The Day of the DoctorTLV: Echoes of ExtinctionClassic Companions
Website: The Advent of FearDWA (Post-Heather) BBC Audio: The Final Voyage
BBC Audio: Dead AirNovel: Code of the KrillitanesChronicle: Last ChanceWebsite: The Doctor on My ShoulderThe End of Time -DWA: Lucky Heather -Short Trip: The Jago & Litefoot Revival
Now that’s a marathon and a half! Great work. EDIT: I’d move Ordeal of Peladon to just after The Shattered Hourglass. The Doctor is very hesitant to amend a fixed point in time, so would tie in to his actions in The Waters of Mars / TLV and form part of a nice epilogue that comes to a close in Echoes of Extinction. I saw Ordeal differently. To me it’s another incident which pushes him towards Waters, as another time where he feels he could intervene for the better if not for the damn rules. I like to think this and Pompeii just sit in the back of his mind and then in Waters he finally snaps and does away with the rules - only to suffer the consequences. |
|
