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Post by mark687 on May 14, 2017 11:56:33 GMT
It needs constant weekly promotion and maybe, as much as I don't understand why, a younger more general audience attractive lead.
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mark687
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 12:04:43 GMT
It needs constant weekly promotion and maybe, as much as I don't understand why, a younger more general audience attractive lead. Regards mark687 I dunno... Eye candy may be a factor, but I'm fairly willing to bet my money on diminishing returns on recent attempts at reinvention. Whether you liked, loved, hated or were indifferent to it, the RTD era at least had a consistent tone (a bit of Peel era Avengers flair). The Matt Smith era likewise had a style that remained constant, but the Twelfth Doctor...? I'm a big fan of experimental stories and formats, Creatures of Beauty and The Pirates are some of my favourites, but I think a combination of unfamiliar territory, a hostile lead, a strangely unsympathetic deuteragonist and the hand-me-downs of the previous Doctor contributed to people drifting away from the programme. Mind you, I've managed to get half a dozen people to watch Oxygen who wouldn't have otherwise, so maybe word of mouth will help boost things?
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 12:06:42 GMT
I don't think New Who will ever hit the very heights of the Tennant years (8-10 million on a couple of occasions) again, after 13 years and well over 100 stories how much more can they do to reboot the show and keep it fresh for new viewers? Take it off the air is what I keep on hearing.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 12:07:54 GMT
It needs constant weekly promotion and maybe, as much as I don't understand why, a younger more general audience attractive lead. Regards mark687 They need an actor with presence I think. Like all the Doctors who had ratings increase during their era.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 12:13:30 GMT
I don't think New Who will ever hit the very heights of the Tennant years (8-10 million on a couple of occasions) again, after 13 years and well over 100 stories how much more can they do to reboot the show and keep it fresh for new viewers? Take it off the air is what I keep on hearing. But it's just come back from having a year off. From Facebook comments - often very negative - I saw similar sentiments expressed over the last couple of years. This series has actually produced a lot more positive comments on 'social media'. Even the moaners are happy with the majority of the stories this year. Perhaps that's the problem - appeal to the 'hardcore' and alienate the masses?
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 12:16:32 GMT
Take it off the air is what I keep on hearing. But it's just come back from having a year off. From Facebook comments - often very negative - I saw similar sentiments expressed over the last couple of years. This series has actually produced a lot more positive comments on 'social media'. Even the moaners are happy with the majority of the stories this year. Perhaps that's the problem - appeal to the 'hardcore' and alienate the masses? That's what I've been saying for years now. That's what happened with Missy. That's what's happened with Capaldi. And it's why I'm against a woman Doctor. The show needs to take a break longer than just a year or two. Probably seven years or so, for the audience to realise that it isn't actually on.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 12:18:48 GMT
Remember when they said about they have plans till 2020? Well, maybe they're doing 3 years with the new Doctor and Chibnall. Seeing how it goes, then deciding whether or not to cancel it.
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Post by mark687 on May 14, 2017 12:33:24 GMT
It needs constant weekly promotion and maybe, as much as I don't understand why, a younger more general audience attractive lead. Regards mark687 They need an actor with presence I think. Like all the Doctors who had ratings increase during their era. Capaldi's got plenty of presence in dialogue delivery I think its just his action physicality that lacks conviction which makes this week's twist all the more surprising.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 12:55:41 GMT
They need an actor with presence I think. Like all the Doctors who had ratings increase during their era. Capaldi's got plenty of presence in dialogue delivery I think its just his action physicality that lacks conviction which makes this week's twist all the more surprising.
Regards
mark687
"I think" is the key word.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 12:59:01 GMT
Take it off the air is what I keep on hearing. But it's just come back from having a year off. From Facebook comments - often very negative - I saw similar sentiments expressed over the last couple of years. This series has actually produced a lot more positive comments on 'social media'. Even the moaners are happy with the majority of the stories this year. Perhaps that's the problem - appeal to the 'hardcore' and alienate the masses? It's difficult to say, but over the past couple years they may have fallen into the trap of appealing to their detractors rather than fans. It's a very easy mistake to make and one I think they've overcome with this new series. It feels way more comfortable than previous efforts.
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Post by Timelord007 on May 14, 2017 13:00:57 GMT
David Tennant somehow was truly liked by hardcore & casual viewer so when he left it was going to be tough to get another actor to balance both ends of the spectrum, Matt appealed to younger fans, Capaldi to older but not to the casual viewer.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 13:20:21 GMT
David Tennant somehow was truly liked by hardcore & casual viewer so when he left it was going to be tough to get another actor to balance both ends of the spectrum, Matt appealed to younger fans, Capaldi to older but not to the casual viewer. That's what I really like about this new trio. The Doctor is able to maintain his mystique, Nardole serves as a talking head for fans (of Who or just science fiction in general) and Bill as one for casual viewers. It's a nice set up.
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Post by mark687 on May 14, 2017 13:26:13 GMT
Capaldi's got plenty of presence in dialogue delivery I think its just his action physicality that lacks conviction which makes this week's twist all the more surprising.
Regards
mark687
"I think" is the key word. of course it is its My opinion.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 13:30:13 GMT
David Tennant somehow was truly liked by hardcore & casual viewer so when he left it was going to be tough to get another actor to balance both ends of the spectrum, Matt appealed to younger fans, Capaldi to older but not to the casual viewer. That's what I really like about this new trio. The Doctor is able to maintain his mystique, Nardole serves as a talking head for fans (of Who or just science fiction in general) and Bill as one for casual viewers. It's a nice set up. I don't know... I think the viewers want the Doctor to be somewhat human or be kind of mad eccentric. Capaldi's just... alien.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on May 14, 2017 13:40:29 GMT
I found the 10th Doctor kinda...boring/annoying at times because he was so human/mopey RTD strived so hard to make the Doctor 'relatable' that it ultimately ended up annoying me, I prefer it when the Doctor is, well, alien and kept at something of a distance. I really liked Matt Smith in S5 but as his era went on the writers seemed to focus more and more on the quirky humour and built him up into being a zany god. Capaldi's Doctor is much more restrained and mysterious (the idiot in the box passing through) and has a much darker, snarkier streak but oddly enough also comes across as more fallible and impulsive i.m.o, it's a very interesting duality and I see shades of my two other favourite Doctors (1 and 8) in Capaldi's performance.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 13:42:08 GMT
That's what I really like about this new trio. The Doctor is able to maintain his mystique, Nardole serves as a talking head for fans (of Who or just science fiction in general) and Bill as one for casual viewers. It's a nice set up. I don't know... I think the viewers want the Doctor to be somewhat human or be kind of mad eccentric. Capaldi's just... alien. Mmm, but the benefit of an additional companion (Nardole in this case) means that the Doctor can be humanised by proxy. Compare his actions towards the end of Deep Breath to those in Oxygen. They're both sucky positions, but he comes across as more relatable in the latter because Nardole acts as conscience. The alien behaviour is given an empathetic aspect to it that the Doctor himself wouldn't talk about -- revenge, suicide, etc. It's a neat trick you can see applied waaaay back in 1963 as well. Ian/Barbara queries the First Doctor's unusual behaviour and Barbara/Ian provides a speculative answer.
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Post by mark687 on May 14, 2017 13:51:26 GMT
I don't know... I think the viewers want the Doctor to be somewhat human or be kind of mad eccentric. Capaldi's just... alien. Mmm, but the benefit of an additional companion (Nardole in this case) means that the Doctor can be humanised by proxy. Compare his actions towards the end of Deep Breath to those in Oxygen. They're both sucky positions, but he comes across as more relatable in the latter because Nardole acts as conscience. The alien behaviour is given a sympathetically aspect to it that the Doctor himself wouldn't talk about -- revenge, suicide, etc. Ah but Nardole's not human he's been programmed by the Doctor and so far exhibits more non-human traits (the slightly cold, awkward outside observer)
Regards
mark687
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Post by Ela on May 14, 2017 17:58:05 GMT
Well I hated most of the 6th Doctor's TV stories too, and I lived through them! There is a reason some of them prop up DWM/fan polls, as a lot of them really were awful. The people here who like the 6th Doctor probably do so in the main because of the Big Finish 6th Doctor audios, which are generally top notch stories that do justice to the 6th Doctor. So two different things. There's a video on Youtube from one of Colin Baker's American Who convention appearances where a married couple stand up and compliment the actor on his performance as the Sixth, even calling him their favorite Doctor. I don't remember how the conversation transpires exactly, but Baker learns that the man and woman are actually referring to his performance on the TV series and NOT Big Finish (I don't think they had even heard his audio dramas). Baker looks gobsmacked and even moved by their praise. I mention that because it reinforces my belief that TV Sixie and his stories have found new fans over the years. Maybe the episodes are a lot easier to digest after the poor writing of Nu Who and dickish behavior of Twelve, or maybe people are finally able to sit and enjoy the era without the pressure of obnoxious fans and their echo chamber of opinion. Personally, I really enjoy the Sixth Doctor era on television, and I've become tired of people arguing that the stories should be shunned and that Big Finish redeemed Colin Baker. I loved the Sixth Doctor from his television performances, and it was before I had heard one Big Finish episode. And I watched all the Sixth Doctor episodes quite a long time ago, in fact. So I was not comparing him in my head to new Who Doctors.
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Post by Ela on May 14, 2017 18:01:25 GMT
As a teenager it was hard not to care about how others view you for liking a show when they're beating you up because of it. Now my son is the teenager and while lots of other schoolkids might not be fans, there seems to be an acceptance that it's an okay thing for others to like. And as we get older perhaps we care less what people think. I know people at work think I'm eccentric or "a little odd" but they do like the fact I wear bow ties, even if they don't necessarily make the connection. Cheers Tony I find that people who wear bow ties are considered kind of quirky. And that was even before Eleven's "bow ties are cool".
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Post by acousticwolf on May 14, 2017 19:13:43 GMT
And as we get older perhaps we care less what people think. I know people at work think I'm eccentric or "a little odd" but they do like the fact I wear bow ties, even if they don't necessarily make the connection. Cheers Tony I find that people who wear bow ties are considered kind of quirky. And that was even before Eleven's "bow ties are cool". I'll take quirky Cheers Tony
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