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Post by Timelord007 on May 21, 2017 7:20:18 GMT
Intriguing & intense, lets hope the next two episodes deliver the goods.
Blimey i actually enjoyed watching a Moffat episode.......i need to lie down in the zero room.
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Post by fitzoliverj on May 21, 2017 7:58:23 GMT
Not sure about that one - seemed to be a pastiche of a Moffat episode rather than genuinelly Moffatty - but I suppose we need to watch the rest of the ongoing story to properly judge. Disappointing, though, that they botched their historical references again (Benedict IX's recommendation would not carry ANY water, being a woman was about the only thing he wasn't accused of - and can we put aside the Pope Joan story, please? It's an anti-Catholic myth, and not every viewer posts to A Certain Other Internet Forum where that kind of thing gets lapped up).
(Oh, and paz? Looks like you owe me your Tom Baker socks - but I'm going to hang on. Just because Missy is *supposed* to be in there, doesn't mean she is.....)
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Post by nucleusofswarm on May 21, 2017 9:21:20 GMT
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Post by number13 on May 21, 2017 10:55:59 GMT
Well I loved it! Ambitious, glossy, complex, wonderfully misleading and with some proper Hinchcliffe-level monsters. And with time to spend on buillding a long story, with time to let it unfold over coming weeks - you know what, classic era fans? Three long episodes - they're making one of the old six-parters again, aren't they?! I enjoyed the darkness, the humour ('the Pope in my bedroom?!'), Bill and Nardole, Missy - and the brilliant Matrix spin-off - a fully legitiimate one too, because the Matrix belongs to 'Doctor Who'. As we all know, the legendary Robert Holmes created it forty years ago in 'The Deadly Assassin' - but remember - the Doctor told the Time Lords who maintained it that there were species out there with technology that would make their Gallifreyan Matrix look antiquated - I think we just met them last night! The Doctor's continuing blindness is a very moving theme, as we watch him coping with a sudden disability using technology, intelligence, pride and determination. A true hero as always - and Nardole as his 'guide dog' gives some light relief to an otherwise traumatic storyline. (And I'm still trying to figure out Nardole - is he 'Jeeves' or does he have some authority over the Doctor, as he implied last night? And is he android from the neck down?) There were some flaws I could pick but it's a rare story where that isn't true. I enjoyed it very much indeed and now I'm actually waiting for next Saturday evening... just like the old days! {Speculative Spoiler} Are we sure it's literally Missy in the vault, even if the Doctor thinks so? My money is on the Master walking out when those door are finally opened...
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 11:05:00 GMT
An enjoyable little prologue that just manages to scrape past the simulation apathy and deliver a story that still feels as though it matters. The subplot with Missy's execution was a highlight with some lovely acting from Capaldi and Gomez, even if its resolution was Moffat's equivalent of "And with one bound he was free" (seen as far back as Forest of the Dead) -- the Doctor going "Do you know who I am?" One day, he's going to do that and they're just going to shoot him in the head because he's not expecting it.
Still, it's a promising start all the same. I can't really say very much until the end of this particular story.
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Post by constonks on May 21, 2017 14:03:38 GMT
Just the Master then, eh?
Two years ago, we were told Gomez would be in Season 10. Then the Masters were both in the Coming This Season trailer. Then we were told Gomez was in Episode 6. Then we were told the Vault contents would be revealed in Episode 6.
Wow what a twist.
EDIT: Also a friend of mine pointed something out during Episode 5: "If it's just the Master, why have they been saying 'you-know-who' and 'our friend'? You know the second they say it's the Master, they're just going to say the name without any of that secrecy stuff." And oh look, it's just "Missy" now. Mmm.
(should probably say I liked the simulation resolution though - good modern twist on a terrible existential truth)
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 21, 2017 14:08:18 GMT
Just the Master then, eh? Two years ago, we were told Gomez would be in Season 10. Then the Masters were both in the Coming This Season trailer. Then we were told Gomez was in Episode 6. Then we were told the Vault contents would be revealed in Episode 6. Wow what a twist. EDIT: Also a friend of mine pointed something out during Episode 5: "If it's just the Master, why have they been saying 'you-know-who' and 'our friend'? You know the second they say it's the Master, they're just going to say the name without any of that secrecy stuff." And oh look, it's just "Missy" now. Mmm. (should probably say I liked the simulation resolution though - good modern twist on a terrible existential truth) They should have just said it was Missy from the start.
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Post by constonks on May 21, 2017 14:14:47 GMT
ALSO if you're going to introduce the Vault (and the season) through Bill's eyes - which was done quite well in The Pilot - why reveal the contents when she's not even there?! Now we're one step ahead of the character we were supposed to focus on and it just feels the same as every other season, where we're following the Doctor around as just an audience member, not as the companion. Some narrative consistency could have made this a really cool unique arc, but now it's just... another one.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 14:30:17 GMT
ALSO if you're going to introduce the Vault (and the season) through Bill's eyes - which was done quite well in The Pilot - why reveal the contents when she's not even there?! Now we're one step ahead of the character we were supposed to focus on and it just feels the same as every other season, where we're following the Doctor around as just an audience member, not as the companion. Some narrative consistency could have made this a really cool unique arc, but now it's just... another one. You're presuming that Missy is indeed in there. What The Doctor thinks is there and what IS there may be two very different things. At this stage that seems more likely than not, given the lack of footage we've seen in the vault itself.
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Post by constonks on May 21, 2017 14:32:14 GMT
ALSO if you're going to introduce the Vault (and the season) through Bill's eyes - which was done quite well in The Pilot - why reveal the contents when she's not even there?! Now we're one step ahead of the character we were supposed to focus on and it just feels the same as every other season, where we're following the Doctor around as just an audience member, not as the companion. Some narrative consistency could have made this a really cool unique arc, but now it's just... another one. You're presuming that Missy is indeed in there. What The Doctor thinks is there and what IS there may be two very different things. At this stage that seems more likely than not, given the lack of footage we've seen in the vault itself. From a Radio Times Moff interview: (Even if that were the case, we'd still be a step ahead of Bill, which is my main annoyance with it.) Also apparently Michelle Gomez is leaving with Capaldi and Moffat - so are we actually going to get a Three Masters story?
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 14:34:40 GMT
You're presuming that Missy is indeed in there. What The Doctor thinks is there and what IS there may be two very different things. At this stage that seems more likely than not, given the lack of footage we've seen in the vault itself. From a Radio Times Moff interview: (Even if that were the case, we'd still be a step ahead of Bill, which is my main annoyance with it.) Yeah, and my point is whats going on in there, or has gone in there, could well be as much of a revelation as who is/was in it - it's Steven Moffat, he's not going to toss his only big twist away almost off handedly. I've zero doubts there's something else going on that will only come into play for the finale two-oarter.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on May 21, 2017 14:39:21 GMT
Not sure about that one - seemed to be a pastiche of a Moffat episode rather than genuinelly Moffatty - but I suppose we need to watch the rest of the ongoing story to properly judge. Disappointing, though, that they botched their historical references again (Benedict IX's recommendation would not carry ANY water, being a woman was about the only thing he wasn't accused of - and can we put aside the Pope Joan story, please? It's an anti-Catholic myth, and not every viewer posts to A Certain Other Internet Forum where that kind of thing gets lapped up). (Oh, and paz? Looks like you owe me your Tom Baker socks - but I'm going to hang on. Just because Missy is *supposed* to be in there, doesn't mean she is.....) Well, speaking as someone who IS Catholic, I wasn't the least bit offended by it because (a) it's only a story, (b) only bigots think it's actually harmful in any way and (c) who ever said that the Whoniverise(!) or its Extremis copy was our universe anyway? It just looks like it. I reckon it's a reflection of ours
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Post by constonks on May 21, 2017 14:47:42 GMT
Yeah, and my point is whats going on in there, or has gone in there, could well be as much of a revelation as who is/was in it - it's Steven Moffat, he's not going to toss his only big twist away almost off handedly. I've zero doubts there's something else going on that will only come into play for the finale two-oarter. Oh I'm sure there's other stuff going on. We've got Simm and Mondasians at some point. Who knows how they're all involved. My main concerns are 1) that episode synopses and cast lists contain the information needed to solve a puzzle, rather than the narrative itself and 2) that Bill - who we entered this narrative alongside - is now steps behind us, and isn't part of the arc anymore. Now she's just kinda along for the ride. But I guess this just means don't read anything in advance? That episode descriptions aren't meant to excite and enhance the story but in fact disrupt the flow of it.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 15:11:42 GMT
Extremis took Doctor Who back up to over 4 million viewers again this week. With 4.16 million, it was third on overnights behind a quiz called Pointless and of course, Britain's Got Talent.
Strange how ratings are fluctuating this year. Next weekend is once again a Bank Holiday weekend, which has brought the ratings down in the recent past. Also, at a 7.45pm start time, it will overlap much more of BGT, although the audiences for the two shows are pretty different. Could dip below 4 million again next week.
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Post by acousticwolf on May 21, 2017 15:49:05 GMT
Out of curiosity, was it ever explained why the Tardis didn't translate the Pope?
Cheers
Tony
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Post by kimalysong on May 21, 2017 16:05:10 GMT
Out of curiosity, was it ever explained why the Tardis didn't translate the Pope? Cheers Tony The world wasn't real right maybe that's something the simulation didn't pick up.
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Post by acousticwolf on May 21, 2017 16:07:27 GMT
Out of curiosity, was it ever explained why the Tardis didn't translate the Pope? Cheers Tony The world wasn't real right maybe that's something the simulation didn't pick up. I wondered that and yet it was perfect enough to pick up the sonic shades (with send facility) . Only hit me this morning so wondered if it was a hint to say the world wasn't real... Or maybe I'm just picky Cheers Tony
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Post by kimalysong on May 21, 2017 16:24:57 GMT
The world wasn't real right maybe that's something the simulation didn't pick up. I wondered that and yet it was perfect enough to pick up the sonic shades (with send facility) . Only hit me this morning so wondered if it was a hint to say the world wasn't real... Or maybe I'm just picky Cheers Tony Yeah but it seems a bit strange that Moffat wouldn't remember that the Tardis can translate. That might not be the explanation but there has to be one. I am sure there are plot holes in this episode but I doubt that's one of them.
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Post by acousticwolf on May 21, 2017 16:26:11 GMT
I wondered that and yet it was perfect enough to pick up the sonic shades (with send facility) . Only hit me this morning so wondered if it was a hint to say the world wasn't real... Or maybe I'm just picky Cheers Tony Yeah but it seems a bit strange that Moffat wouldn't remember that the Tardis can translate. That might not be the explanation but there has to be one. I am sure there are plot holes in this episode but I doubt that's one of them. That's what I thought, so assumed I must have missed something Cheers Tony
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Post by kimalysong on May 21, 2017 16:28:30 GMT
Found the explanation: Google and you shall find Moffat: Well, the scenes just worked better with the Pope speaking Italian and being translated. I did write in the Doctor saying he didn’t really need the translation, and Nardole suggesting that he play along out of courtesy – but it glitched the scene, so I lost it in the edit. In fairness, the Doctor’s translation ability has wobbled before, so it’s just having another off moment. I tell myself it’s because of the blindness, and the concentration involved in interpreting the world through his sonic sunglasses. (Hooray, they’re back – a nation cheers!) www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-05-20/doctor-who-exclusive-steven-moffat-reveals-the-secrets-of-extremis-2Love that Name of the Rose was mentioned here. That and not Davinchi Code was the first thing I thought of.
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