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Post by acousticwolf on May 21, 2017 16:30:02 GMT
Found the explanation: Google and you shall find Moffat: Well, the scenes just worked better with the Pope speaking Italian and being translated. I did write in the Doctor saying he didn’t really need the translation, and Nardole suggesting that he play along out of courtesy – but it glitched the scene, so I lost it in the edit. In fairness, the Doctor’s translation ability has wobbled before, so it’s just having another off moment. I tell myself it’s because of the blindness, and the concentration involved in interpreting the world through his sonic sunglasses. (Hooray, they’re back – a nation cheers!) www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-05-20/doctor-who-exclusive-steven-moffat-reveals-the-secrets-of-extremis-2Love that Name of the Rose was mentioned here. That and not Davinchi Code was the first thing I thought of. Thanks for that. For some reason that makes it worse lol . Cheers Tony
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Post by sherlock on May 21, 2017 16:31:08 GMT
I wondered that and yet it was perfect enough to pick up the sonic shades (with send facility) . Only hit me this morning so wondered if it was a hint to say the world wasn't real... Or maybe I'm just picky Cheers Tony Yeah but it seems a bit strange that Moffat wouldn't remember that the Tardis can translate. That might not be the explanation but there has to be one. I am sure there are plot holes in this episode but I doubt that's one of them. Maybe it was just the hologram being unaware of the TARDIS' ability to translate. Plus it led to the amazing moment of the Pope proclaiming 'it's bigger in the inside' in Italian, so I'm giving this mistake a pass.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 16:31:36 GMT
I wondered that and yet it was perfect enough to pick up the sonic shades (with send facility) . Only hit me this morning so wondered if it was a hint to say the world wasn't real... Or maybe I'm just picky Cheers Tony Yeah but it seems a bit strange that Moffat wouldn't remember that the Tardis can translate. That might not be the explanation but there has to be one. I am sure there are plot holes in this episode but I doubt that's one of them. To me it is an annoying plot hole. I assume he did it that way just because he felt it looked effective.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 16:32:56 GMT
Found the explanation: Google and you shall find Moffat: Well, the scenes just worked better with the Pope speaking Italian and being translated. I did write in the Doctor saying he didn’t really need the translation, and Nardole suggesting that he play along out of courtesy – but it glitched the scene, so I lost it in the edit. In fairness, the Doctor’s translation ability has wobbled before, so it’s just having another off moment. I tell myself it’s because of the blindness, and the concentration involved in interpreting the world through his sonic sunglasses. (Hooray, they’re back – a nation cheers!) www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-05-20/doctor-who-exclusive-steven-moffat-reveals-the-secrets-of-extremis-2Love that Name of the Rose was mentioned here. That and not Davinchi Code was the first thing I thought of. Ok thanks, so pretty much as I thought. Annoys me when he does things like that.
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Post by acousticwolf on May 21, 2017 16:34:41 GMT
Found the explanation: Google and you shall find Moffat: Well, the scenes just worked better with the Pope speaking Italian and being translated. I did write in the Doctor saying he didn’t really need the translation, and Nardole suggesting that he play along out of courtesy – but it glitched the scene, so I lost it in the edit. In fairness, the Doctor’s translation ability has wobbled before, so it’s just having another off moment. I tell myself it’s because of the blindness, and the concentration involved in interpreting the world through his sonic sunglasses. (Hooray, they’re back – a nation cheers!) www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-05-20/doctor-who-exclusive-steven-moffat-reveals-the-secrets-of-extremis-2Love that Name of the Rose was mentioned here. That and not Davinchi Code was the first thing I thought of. Ok thanks, so pretty much as I thought. Annoys me when he does things like that. Yep. Cheers Tony
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Post by jasonward on May 21, 2017 18:10:49 GMT
The Pope was a simulated Pope, the Tardis was also a simulated Tardis.
Simulations are always less complex version of the thing they simulate, there are always rounding errors and none simulated aspects within a simulation, the simulation was meant to simulate earth and it's environment, The Doctor's Tardis may well have been a stretch too far for the simulation, not least because whoever built the simulation would need to know how the Tardis worked to simulate it properly, and if they knew that in that detail they could just build one for real.
The pope spoke Italian because he does (well at least in the simulated world) and the Tardis failed to translate because it wasn't the Tardis, just an approximation.
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Post by jasonward on May 21, 2017 18:18:27 GMT
Really enjoyed this episode, the best by far, mildly disappointed it's Missy in the vault.
The only thing that took me out of the immersion was the dynamite sticks at CERN, I immediately thought "what the hell?" 1) where and why would CERN scientists get and have dynamite sticks? 2) They are CERN for heavens sake, they have the Large Hadron Collider, they make minute black holes and collide objects into each other at the speed of light, I'm pretty certain they could have come up with some cool way to commit mass suicide that didn't involve sticks of dynamite.
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Post by fitzoliverj on May 21, 2017 18:30:25 GMT
Well, speaking as someone who IS Catholic, I wasn't the least bit offended by it because (a) it's only a story, (b) only bigots think it's actually harmful in any way and (c) who ever said that the Whoniverise(!) or its Extremis copy was our universe anyway? It just looks like it. I reckon it's a reflection of ours I'm glad this wasn't seen as a problem - it's just that they made a point in DWM of saying they weren't going to be disrespectful, and (as I have alluded) there is a certain breed of fan I've had issues with online in the past. (And I agree, it's not as if it was the real world anyway*). *So what the hell was the point of all that borrowing-from-the-future business? It's not as if he got to read anything anyway.
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Post by Tim Bradley on May 21, 2017 18:48:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 19:05:03 GMT
The Pope was a simulated Pope, the Tardis was also a simulated Tardis. Simulations are always less complex version of the thing they simulate, there are always rounding errors and none simulated aspects within a simulation, the simulation was meant to simulate earth and it's environment, The Doctor's Tardis may well have been a stretch too far for the simulation, not least because whoever built the simulation would need to know how the Tardis worked to simulate it properly, and if they knew that in that detail they could just build one for real. The pope spoke Italian because he does (well at least in the simulated world) and the Tardis failed to translate because it wasn't the Tardis, just an approximation. Well they simulated the TARDIS well enough for it to be bigger on the inside and fly to a variety of locations around the world. So their technology is at least powerful enough to replicate the inner form and function of a Gallifreyan time machine. Gulp. And they wouldn't need to replicate how the TARDIS translates, just the effect on the simulated Doctor and Bill.
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Post by jasonward on May 21, 2017 19:16:47 GMT
The Pope was a simulated Pope, the Tardis was also a simulated Tardis. Simulations are always less complex version of the thing they simulate, there are always rounding errors and none simulated aspects within a simulation, the simulation was meant to simulate earth and it's environment, The Doctor's Tardis may well have been a stretch too far for the simulation, not least because whoever built the simulation would need to know how the Tardis worked to simulate it properly, and if they knew that in that detail they could just build one for real. The pope spoke Italian because he does (well at least in the simulated world) and the Tardis failed to translate because it wasn't the Tardis, just an approximation. Well they simulated the TARDIS well enough for it to be bigger on the inside and fly to a variety of locations around the world. So their technology is at least powerful enough to replicate the inner form and function of a Gallifreyan time machine. Gulp. And they wouldn't need to replicate how the TARDIS translates, just the effect on the simulated Doctor and Bill. The simulated Tardis only travelled on earth on the same time line, and since in a computer simulation, where everything is just numbers anyway, the interior/exterior dimensions are basically irrelevant, so what we saw of the Tardis working was nothing special, a mere souped up car, or plane.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on May 21, 2017 19:31:40 GMT
Really enjoyed this episode, the best by far, mildly disappointed it's Missy in the vault. The only thing that took me out of the immersion was the dynamite sticks at CERN, I immediately thought "what the hell?" 1) where and why would CERN scientists get and have dynamite sticks? 2) They are CERN for heavens sake, they have the Large Hadron Collider, they make minute black holes and collide objects into each other at the speed of light, I'm pretty certain they could have come up with some cool way to commit mass suicide that didn't involve sticks of dynamite. Maybe real CERN would. Who can tell what fake CERN is up to.
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Post by constonks on May 21, 2017 22:48:47 GMT
Did anyone catch why Bill disintegrated? When everyone else realised they weren't real, they definitely didn't just vanish...
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 23:12:59 GMT
Did anyone catch why Bill disintegrated? When everyone else realised they weren't real, they definitely didn't just vanish... Yes, the monk was revealed to have "attacked" her from behind just after that.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 23:23:39 GMT
Oh, nicely played, Moffatt.
I was laughing so hard that I was crying at the bedroom scene. THE BLOODY POPE.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 0:02:47 GMT
Liked bill and nardole even more, but the doctor is blind got very tiresome very quickly
Eh, I disagree. The Doctor being blind is a great shakeup (and is being handled with particular care), particularly in a regeneration year.
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Post by mrperson on May 22, 2017 0:33:48 GMT
I'm annoyed with the "Doctor is Blind" thing because it is silly. Tens of billions of medicine/machinery would be able to replace his eyes, period. It's like "The Gunfighters". There simply is no reason for someone with access to all of time and space not take advantage of a treatable condition, and we know eyesight is treatable because cyborgs.
Other than that, I enjoyed it quite a bit. Reused various ideas, sure, but still quite good. I'm glad Moffat got whatever it was out of his system before his last season.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on May 22, 2017 0:48:49 GMT
A theory I heard last nite on an Australian Dr who after show..
Not sure if its been posted here ..
What if Bill is really The Master- in the flashback Missy is asking him to teach her to be "good".. so Bill is the regenerated form, then there was something about mind wiping Bill again and again like what we saw attempted in ep 1 of this season.. I missed a bit of the theory..
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 1:28:33 GMT
Can I just say that I'm not too fond of how The Doctor and Master/Missy's relationship is protrayed by Stephen Moffatt? Yes, in the Pertwee era, The Doctor is looking forward to the challenge The Master can offer him, but you can cast that off as the series being an adventure-serial. Later incarnations in the original series have never hid their contempt for The Master's actions, to the extent that Five is prepared (and believes he has) to kill him and nothing much holds back Seven from attempting to do so in Surrival. I know Moffat finds that aspect of their relationship, but not everything has to make the transfer.
I just don't buy it that The Doctor, however cut off due to his actions in Hell Bent from the rest of the people, would spare Missy's life.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 1:52:17 GMT
Really enjoyed this episode, the best by far, mildly disappointed it's Missy in the vault. The only thing that took me out of the immersion was the dynamite sticks at CERN, I immediately thought "what the hell?" 1) where and why would CERN scientists get and have dynamite sticks? 2) They are CERN for heavens sake, they have the Large Hadron Collider, they make minute black holes and collide objects into each other at the speed of light, I'm pretty certain they could have come up with some cool way to commit mass suicide that didn't involve sticks of dynamite. That's got to seem really funny from a certain perspective as a scientist. You spend all your time simulating ion/proton collisions in order to unravel the nature of the universe only to find that a tome kept in a secret Vatican vault reveals that you too are a simulation. Can I just say that I'm not too fond of how The Doctor and Master/Missy's relationship is protrayed by Stephen Moffatt? Yes, in the Pertwee era, The Doctor is looking forward to the challenge The Master can offer him, but you can cast that off as the series being an adventure-serial. Later incarnations in the original series have never hid their contempt for The Master's actions, to the extent that Five is prepared (and believes he has) to kill him and nothing much holds back Seven from attempting to do so in Surrival. I know Moffat finds that aspect of their relationship, but not everything has to make the transfer.
I just don't buy it that The Doctor, however cut off due to his actions in Hell Bent from the rest of the people, would spare Missy's life. Yeah, I think that was the only issue I really had with that part of the subplot. The idea that the Doctor's too good to kill the Master. Nonsense. His fifth incarnation stood by and watched him burn alive, trapped him in Castrovalva, he even shoots him in the chest in one story. The story Master predicated on the Doctor arriving to eventually kill him. As gloriously multifaceted their relationship is nowadays, I don't think he would spare her life after all the harm she's done. Besides, out of all the people that she could be executed by, I think the Doctor would be the one she'd want to do it. Credit to the episode, I got a bit annoyed at Nardole turning up at the Fatality Index proceedings actually. I thought he was intruding on a deeply personal moment. Missy would naturally come back to life, she has a habit of cheating death, but to not even attempt to stop her seems recklessly irresponsible, even for the Doctor.
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