bobod
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Post by bobod on Jun 6, 2017 8:26:23 GMT
They should have given the fans what they wanted. But 'the fans' all have different wants, surely. So it's impossible to cover everything.
I'd say all of them could be said to be "what the fans wanted"
The three Tom and Lalla stories by Gareth Roberts, popular TV writer. And also the first book by him.
The first book by Mark Gatiss - very much a fan favourite
Chris and Roz in audio form (fans are still asking for more of them - so that's worked)
The first meeting with Benny and the first meeting with Roz and Chris.
An adaptation of Russell T Davies' first DW tale.
Cold Fusion for the multi-Doctor team-up
The first meeting between the Doctor and Brax (played by his long-serving BF portrayer)
A meeting between the Doctor and the BF Sherlock Holmes
It'd be hard to say they weren't giving the fans what they wanted - only perhaps that they didn't give them everything they wanted. But if they'd sold better there'd've been more and I would imagine the next ones would be the wanted Goth Opera and Blood Harvest pairing. What would be obvious after that?
The first two I can understand due to the significance of them (although there's a lot of fans for whom "what they wanted" would be for BF to stay as far away from Lungbarrow as possible). I can't imagine there's a huge desire for an audio of Venusian Lullaby. Certainly would be WAY down the bottom of my wish-list.
I can't see how that would work? Do you mean adapt the book from beginning to end with no concession for length? That'd be impractical on several levels - expensive to have the actors in studio for longer days for one story, expensive to have to have actors to cover every little role in the book (or asking actors to do voice after voice), and how does one release it if the script has not been edited for length - three CDs, four? five? At what stage of the process is this known and decided? Once the finished version is ready? In which case how do they pre-sell it if they don't know how long it will be and what price to sell it at?
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Post by Ela on Jun 6, 2017 16:37:55 GMT
I actually think Big Finish did a fantastic job of adapting the novels to fit into an audio drama of a reasonable length.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Jun 24, 2017 20:38:49 GMT
Oh well, I'm going to make sure to pick up the other stories eventually... And thanks to the sales this month I now own all the Novel Adaptations (other than the standard editions of the three Gareth Roberts stories and Damaged Goods, already have the limited editions), I've gone from owning 1 CD and one download to owning CD's of all the stories. I never read any of the Virgin novels But I've thoroughly enjoyed the 5 adaptations I've heard so far, what a great range this was, kinda wish I had supported it earlier but I don't usually buy stories at full price for £ related reasons...
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Post by coffeeaddict on Jun 24, 2017 23:18:32 GMT
Oh well, I'm going to make sure to pick up the other stories eventually... And thanks to the sales this month I now own all the Novel Adaptations (other than the standard editions of the three Gareth Roberts stories and Damaged Goods, already have the limited editions), I've gone from owning 1 CD and one download to owning CD's of all the stories. I never read any of the Virgin novels But I've thoroughly enjoyed the 5 adaptations I've heard so far, what a great range this was, kinda wish I had supported it earlier but I don't usually buy stories at full price for £ related reasons... I thought the adaptations were good. I've read all the books that were adapted and in some cases BF actually did a better job, in a few instances I think they provided a slightly different take on a story that holds up nicely with the book. Of the stories adapted I honestly still don't see the love for Damaged Goods - to me it is a very average book and I wasn't overly moved by the BF take on it. Both were good but given the mixed bag that were the Virgin books it's reputation is overblown.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2017 0:44:25 GMT
Oh well, I'm going to make sure to pick up the other stories eventually... And thanks to the sales this month I now own all the Novel Adaptations (other than the standard editions of the three Gareth Roberts stories and Damaged Goods, already have the limited editions), I've gone from owning 1 CD and one download to owning CD's of all the stories. I never read any of the Virgin novels But I've thoroughly enjoyed the 5 adaptations I've heard so far, what a great range this was, kinda wish I had supported it earlier but I don't usually buy stories at full price for £ related reasons... Here's an interesting question -- has this range piqued your interest in acquiring some of the original novels that weren't adapted?
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Post by constonks on Jun 25, 2017 4:31:24 GMT
I actually think Big Finish did a fantastic job of adapting the novels to fit into an audio drama of a reasonable length. Of all the novel adaptations, there's only one where I owned the novel beforehand: Nightshade. And I opened it up the day the adaptation was released, so I could see how it worked. And it was great! The book is better IMO, but most of the audio was streamlined fantastically - and the ending was actually an improvement. At this point I have all but three of the novels adapted and I'm sure I'll read them and then relisten to hear the adaptations. I'm particularly interested in ACF cause people didn't seem to love that one audio-wise but the concept is so beautiful (a lost Sherlock Holmes novel starring the Doctor!) that I've been meaning to check it out ever since I heard about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2017 6:06:15 GMT
I actually think Big Finish did a fantastic job of adapting the novels to fit into an audio drama of a reasonable length. Of all the novel adaptations, there's only one where I owned the novel beforehand: Nightshade. And I opened it up the day the adaptation was released, so I could see how it worked. And it was great! The book is better IMO, but most of the audio was streamlined fantastically - and the ending was actually an improvement. At this point I have all but three of the novels adapted and I'm sure I'll read them and then relisten to hear the adaptations. I'm particularly interested in ACF cause people didn't seem to love that one audio-wise but the concept is so beautiful (a lost Sherlock Holmes novel starring the Doctor!) that I've been meaning to check it out ever since I heard about it. I don't think I can recommend All-Consuming Fire enough as a novel. It's one I think Andy Lane should be proud of. It's beautifully written, wonderfully plotted and manages to seamlessly integrate not only Doctor Who and Sherlock Holmes, but Holmes and Lovecraft as well.
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Post by doctorkernow on Jun 25, 2017 9:08:53 GMT
Hello again.
I love the novel adaptations I have listened to so far: Love & War, Damaged Goods. The solution to adapting Lungbarrow which I love as a story and perhaps Human Nature is to treat both as Seventh Doctor Unbound stories. This way there are no conflicts with established Who continuity.
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Post by constonks on Jun 25, 2017 12:02:52 GMT
Of all the novel adaptations, there's only one where I owned the novel beforehand: Nightshade. And I opened it up the day the adaptation was released, so I could see how it worked. And it was great! The book is better IMO, but most of the audio was streamlined fantastically - and the ending was actually an improvement. At this point I have all but three of the novels adapted and I'm sure I'll read them and then relisten to hear the adaptations. I'm particularly interested in ACF cause people didn't seem to love that one audio-wise but the concept is so beautiful (a lost Sherlock Holmes novel starring the Doctor!) that I've been meaning to check it out ever since I heard about it. I don't think I can recommend All-Consuming Fire enough as a novel. It's one I think Andy Lane should be proud of. It's beautifully written, wonderfully plotted and manages to seamlessly integrate not only Doctor Who and Sherlock Holmes, but Holmes and Lovecraft as well. And you know what? That is all I've heard. Maybe I'll read it next.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Jun 25, 2017 15:09:25 GMT
And thanks to the sales this month I now own all the Novel Adaptations (other than the standard editions of the three Gareth Roberts stories and Damaged Goods, already have the limited editions), I've gone from owning 1 CD and one download to owning CD's of all the stories. I never read any of the Virgin novels But I've thoroughly enjoyed the 5 adaptations I've heard so far, what a great range this was, kinda wish I had supported it earlier but I don't usually buy stories at full price for £ related reasons... Here's an interesting question -- has this range piqued your interest in acquiring some of the original novels that weren't adapted? Yes and no, I have a rather limited budget for BF (and I can't imagine the Virgin novels would be much cheaper) and grew up with New Who so have no nostalgia for the 80's Doctors or Wilderness years so the Virgin novels aren't something I'm rushing out to buy immediately (at least not until I finish my BBC EDA collection), but I have enjoyed the odd peak into that line of stories through these adaptations and I'm certainly curious to learn more about those novels. On the other hand part of the reason I enjoyed the adaptations was because they were relatively stand alone (and I hear the Virgin novels can be quite arc/continuity heavy, dark and introspective at times) and I'd be worried I'd feel lost or confused if I didn't start from the beginning (which I did with the EDA's), the sheer length of the New/Missing Adventures range is quite daunting... Perhaps one day...
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Jun 25, 2017 15:12:23 GMT
I could see BF bringing back the range for a one-off next year and adapting The Dying Days early adventure style (with McGann/Bowerman narrating the Brig's role) because of the stories rarity and reputation, and to help celebrate Benny's 20th Anniversary at BF.
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Post by mark687 on Jun 25, 2017 15:16:35 GMT
I could see BF bringing back the range for a one-off next year and adapting The Dying Days early adventure style (with McGann/Bowerman narrating the Brig's role) because of the stories rarity and reputation, and to help celebrate Benny's 20th Anniversary at BF. Oh I wish
Sanctuary would get my vote though
Regards
mark687
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2017 23:44:46 GMT
Here's an interesting question -- has this range piqued your interest in acquiring some of the original novels that weren't adapted? Yes and no, I have a rather limited budget for BF (and I can't imagine the Virgin novels would be much cheaper) and grew up with New Who so have no nostalgia for the 80's Doctors or Wilderness years so the Virgin novels aren't something I'm rushing out to buy immediately (at least not until I finish my BBC EDA collection), but I have enjoyed the odd peak into that line of stories through these adaptations and I'm certainly curious to learn more about those novels. On the other hand part of the reason I enjoyed the adaptations was because they were relatively stand alone (and I hear the Virgin novels can be quite arc/continuity heavy, dark and introspective at times) and I'd be worried I'd feel lost or confused if I didn't start from the beginning (which I did with the EDA's), the sheer length of the New/Missing Adventures range is quite daunting... Perhaps one day... Oh, I know that feeling. I've been very fortunate in that I found a buyer who sold NAs in bundles of two for half the price they would normally be. Although, there is a solution to that of sorts... Through the magic of the Wayback Machine, there are a handful of adventures you can look at on the old BBC Classic Series website. New Adventures and Missing Adventures including The Dying Days, Nightshade, Human Nature, The Mild-Mannered War and the ever controversial Lungbarrow. It's how I first got to read those stories, I might not have even known about them if they weren't stuck up on the official site like that. Good place to dip your toes in and have a bit of a mouse around.
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Post by Barnacle Crawlins on Jun 26, 2017 20:11:53 GMT
Hello again. I love the novel adaptations I have listened to so far: Love & War, Damaged Goods. The solution to adapting Lungbarrow which I love as a story and perhaps Human Nature is to treat both as Seventh Doctor Unbound stories. This way there are no conflicts with established Who continuity. Or just treat the rest as unbound...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 1:55:40 GMT
Hello again. I love the novel adaptations I have listened to so far: Love & War, Damaged Goods. The solution to adapting Lungbarrow which I love as a story and perhaps Human Nature is to treat both as Seventh Doctor Unbound stories. This way there are no conflicts with established Who continuity. Or just treat the rest as unbound... We've actually figured out a way around the problem of Lungbarrow... Both loom and womb are true, after a fashion. The Doctor's parents combined their genetic data with the Lungbarrow family loom to produce a child and during the weaving, some of the Other's genetic material ended up in the mix as well. It might have been what lead to their escape/exile from Gallifrey in the first place and why they're never mentioned after early childhood. The same process may have also been applied to Braxiatel, which is why he's seen as the Doctor's "older brother". As for the stories that refer to blood relations like aunts and uncles, I reckon it's the Doctor being facetious or using human terminology because he's so used to it. He did adopt Susan as his "granddaughter" despite their initially complicated relationship, so it could easily be an extension of that. Human Nature's is fairly easy. I think it falls under the same purview as The Ultimate Adventure (is Third, Sixth or Banks canonical?) or the TV Comic reprints that replaced the Third Doctor with the Fourth. Either the Time War or the Faction virus are playing silly buggers with his timestream and altering events.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jun 27, 2017 10:53:09 GMT
Or just treat the rest as unbound... We've actually figured out a way around the problem of Lungbarrow... Both loom and womb are true, after a fashion. The Doctor's parents combined their genetic data with the Lungbarrow family loom to produce a child and during the weaving, some of the Other's genetic material ended up in the mix as well. It might have been what lead to their escape/exile from Gallifrey in the first place and why they're never mentioned after early childhood. The same process may have also been applied to Braxiatel, which is why he's seen as the Doctor's "older brother". As for the stories that refer to blood relations like aunts and uncles, I reckon it's the Doctor being facetious or using human terminology because he's so used to it. He did adopt Susan as his "granddaughter" despite their initially complicated relationship, so it could easily be an extension of that. Human Nature's is fairly easy. I think it falls under the same purview as The Ultimate Adventure (is Third, Sixth or Banks canonical?) or the TV Comic reprints that replaced the Third Doctor with the Fourth. Either the Time War or the Faction virus are playing silly buggers with his timestream and altering events. The Whiskey-Wolf Theory in action folks lol
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Post by Barnacle Crawlins on Jun 28, 2017 14:37:21 GMT
Or just treat the rest as unbound... We've actually figured out a way around the problem of Lungbarrow... Both loom and womb are true, after a fashion. The Doctor's parents combined their genetic data with the Lungbarrow family loom to produce a child and during the weaving, some of the Other's genetic material ended up in the mix as well. It might have been what lead to their escape/exile from Gallifrey in the first place and why they're never mentioned after early childhood. The same process may have also been applied to Braxiatel, which is why he's seen as the Doctor's "older brother". As for the stories that refer to blood relations like aunts and uncles, I reckon it's the Doctor being facetious or using human terminology because he's so used to it. He did adopt Susan as his "granddaughter" despite their initially complicated relationship, so it could easily be an extension of that. Human Nature's is fairly easy. I think it falls under the same purview as The Ultimate Adventure (is Third, Sixth or Banks canonical?) or the TV Comic reprints that replaced the Third Doctor with the Fourth. Either the Time War or the Faction virus are playing silly buggers with his timestream and altering events. That's what I subscribe to (I'm an "everything and the kitchen sink" fan, sort of like Lance Parkin). That said half of the stuff about parent, birth (though a birth to me could easily mean born from a loom, but that's just me) and any talk of the Doctor having children etc could be referring to the Other's family (or even one of the "Morbius" Doctor's with Patience as implied by 'The Infinity Doctors'). As for Susan, she was right in 'Lungbarrow', she is the Doctor's granddaughter as the Doctor does have the mind and memories (albeit in a amnesiac way) of the Other even if his body isn't 100% genetically the same. It isn't really that hard to fit that stuff in, really. It is like the fact we see children in that episode of NooHoo 'Day of The Doctor' which some take as de-canonising 'Lungbarrow' (presumably who haven't read it); well as that was a fair time after 'Lungbarrow' in which {Spoiler} Pythia's curse is lifted and the Time Lords are made fertile again,
so this isn't really much of a continuity error. As for 'Human Nature', I think it is different enough to the novel that I can accept it as a different but similar event (especially due to, as you say, things like the Time War and Faction Paradox). Cornell (who famously stated their is no canon) addressed this as not making it so the novel didn't happen as it is his view that the Doctor probably does experience the same events on a number of occasions. At the same time if I have to chose which version of Doctor Who is my idea of more "canon" (not that there is quite an official one) it would be the original show (as much as I am loathe to admit that McCoy's first season or the Graham Williams era happened, but that is just me) plus the NAs with Big Finish unless they contradict something from the show or NAs too much. I know that may not be a popular view but back in the day™ Virign and the BBC, as the rights holder, lead us to believe that the NAs were as much a part of Doctor Who and as official as the show that they were a continuation of ("we was tricked I tells ya"); I have generally got used to thinking of them as such.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 1:23:43 GMT
That's what I subscribe to (I'm an "everything and the kitchen sink" fan, sort of like Lance Parkin). That said half of the stuff about parent, birth (though a birth to me could easily mean born from a loom, but that's just me) and any talk of the Doctor having children etc could be referring to the Other's family (or even one of the "Morbius" Doctor's with Patience as implied by 'The Infinity Doctors'). As for Susan, she was right in 'Lungbarrow', she is the Doctor's granddaughter as the Doctor does have the mind and memories (albeit in a amnesiac way) of the Other even if his body isn't 100% genetically the same. It isn't really that hard to fit that stuff in, really. It is like the fact we see children in that episode of NooHoo 'Day of The Doctor' which some take as de-canonising 'Lungbarrow' (presumably who haven't read it); well as that was a fair time after 'Lungbarrow' in which Pythia's curse is lifted and the Time Lords are made fertile again,
so this isn't really much of a continuity error. That's my take on it too. Figuring how the kitchen sink fits into the house is so much more fun than just dumping it in the garden. Good point, that could easily be used as an out from that continuity embrangle as well. Yeah, it's not so much an error as just, well, continuity. The idea of Romana opening up the Academy (as seen in Gallifrey) and mentions of the Great Houses in Neverland came from that same novel as well, so Lungbarrow isn't quite as isolated as it first appears. As for 'Human Nature', I think it is different enough to the novel that I can accept it as a different but similar event (especially due to, as you say, things like the Time War and Faction Paradox). Cornell (who famously stated their is no canon) addressed this as not making it so the novel didn't happen as it is his view that the Doctor probably does experience the same events on a number of occasions. At the same time if I have to chose which version of Doctor Who is my idea of more "canon" (not that there is quite an official one) it would be the original show (as much as I am loathe to admit that McCoy's first season or the Graham Williams era happened, but that is just me) plus the NAs with Big Finish unless they contradict something from the show or NAs too much. I know that may not be a popular view but back in the day™ Virgin and the BBC, as the rights holder, lead us to believe that the NAs were as much a part of Doctor Who and as official as the show that they were a continuation of ("we was tricked I tells ya"); I have generally got used to thinking of them as such. And that's not a bad assessment of it. Doctor Who is one of the very, very few shows where fanon is pseudo-canon and that can be wonderfully freeing as a fan. The events of (or within) a particular timestream are as real as you want them to be and creators always try to give people a leg up. Feel like Season 6B is genuine? Look up Terrance Dicks's World Game that codifies it. Don't like the idea? Simon Guerrier's The Black Hole is there to smooth out the edges. Struggling to put the TV Comics in? DWM comics have them be dreams the Doctor returns to when he rests and/or the NAs portray them as a product of the Land of Fiction. Again, it's all part of the fun really.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jun 29, 2017 15:50:14 GMT
Alas, some people take too much pleasure in try to decanonise things they don't like (I will resist the urge to point out how something that got decanonised has a nice theory to recanonise it).
More helpfully, and on topic - according to Mark Gatiss in the new DWM, his novel "The Roundheads" was written out originally in script format, and then 'novelised'. Apparently Gareth Roberts had previously used the same method to write "The Plotters". Two books, therefore, that might not have needed much work on them to adapt, and both very very popular. OK, so they would've had to go down the Early Adventures narratorial route, but not doing them is a great shame.
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Post by Barnacle Crawlins on Jun 29, 2017 20:51:40 GMT
Alas, some people take too much pleasure in try to decanonise things they don't like (I will resist the urge to point out how something that got decanonised has a nice theory to recanonise it). Agreed. This is one of the things I hate the most. It is disrespectful to the previous writer(s) and the fans to my mind. Shame that you are resisting that urge... I'm curious.
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