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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 3, 2017 12:01:53 GMT
I'll never get why Robot of Sherwood is so marmite. What's wrong with a bit of fun? Well speaking for me personally, I wanted to like that one but I didn't. I have long been fascinated by the Robin Hood legend and the era that most depictions are set (which wasn't necessarily the correct one going by ballads but I digress) so I made an effort to tune in. You'd think I did like it more due to all the socialism that was sneaked into it but no. I thought it was silly rather than fun, the plot was illogical, the (inaccurate and ugly) costumes were terrible (especially Robin Hoods) the whole premise of Robots looking like (inaccurate and unrealistic) knights was way too daft and didn't work well. The Doctor's insistence of Robin Hood being just a myth considering he'd visited the Trojan War and been involved with other "origins of myths", was a bit strange. I know that 'Doctor Who' is an entertainment program but I wish they'd try harder to make the periods look a bit more like what we know of them. It really takes me out; offenders were those ones set in the 1100s where Missy says to look for anachronisms but the whole thing is (costumes, castle etc), the Viking one (this angered me; they even gave them horns etc despite the fact even in the Whoverse they don't traditionally), this Robin Hood one and the ones with (the over-used) Romans that seem to get worse every appearance. Although the medieval ones are worse maybe the Roman ones show the most laziness as everyone knows what Romans look like . They could at least give Centurions the right plume... So that is another thing I hope this next era does better; depicting historical eras. In the classic show they at least seemed to try a bit harder (not that they were 100% accurate) in the year 2017 (when you can comparatively cheaply buy reenactment gear) they should be doing better. I couldn't care less about accuracy personally. It's a sci-fi show, it's not supposed to be realistic. I still maintain there is nothing wrong with a bit of fun, and it was hardly the show's most illogical plot. As for the Doctor not believing in Robin Hood - it's a bit of fun! I think I'm also right in saying the First Doctor didn't believe the Trojan horse was real until he suggested the idea that created the myth.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 3, 2017 18:20:28 GMT
No. You are wrong. Unless the 12th Doctor doesn't regenerate, a fan can dream, it is going to be the regeneration story because the Doctor, will you know, regenerate. I'm not saying World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls wasn't of the same quality of The Cave of Androzani but that wasn't the point I was making as it relates to this poll. Nothing followed Caves so if you were conducting a poll of best 5th Doctor stories, you would stop there. Doing the same thing with the 12th Doctor, we have one more hour left. So I don't think you can take a complete survey without having that. Others may feel differently. I don't have a problem with that. The regeneration process started in World Enough And Time/The Doctor Falls. The cause of the regeneration is in that story, so it is the one we should consider as the regeneration story. You can say it all you want but if he regenerates in the Christmas Special, it is by definition the regeneration episode. It isn't something up for interpretation.
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Post by mrperson on Jul 3, 2017 18:23:16 GMT
Into the Dalek, Mummy, Time Heist, Under the Lake/Before the Flood, Heaven Sent, Smile, Oxygen, Extremis, Empress of Mars - through the end of S10 (minutes the ending of E12, which I have griped at length about elsewhere).
I suppose that's a little over 12.
I didn't mention Flatline because he was largely sidelined during the ep.
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Post by mrperson on Jul 3, 2017 18:28:31 GMT
Well considering there was nothing that followed The Caves of Androzani with the 5th Doctor, I don't see how a comparison can be made. As for what the Christmas special is going to be, I have no idea. All I know if I don't see the purpose of taking in the whole of 12's tenure to rank the best of them with a incomplete picture of that body of work. So I'll wait. Others feel differently and I don't have a problem with that. Whatever happens at Christmas, World Enough And Time/The Doctor Falls is the regeneration because that's when the regeneration process started. To me it was Caves of Androzani quality. I think Christmas will be great but it's not the regeneration story, it's an aside telling the story of the Doctor wanting to regenerate again. 1. Well, no, we don't know that. Someone else pointed out that the new series introduced a healing phase and a changing phase to regenerating. But this is the first time he's shown actively fighting to suppress it once the changing phase starts. There aren't rules for this. He could have fatally damaged himself in Oxygen and that's when it started, for example. After all, space is pretty deadly, and it was a fantastic stretch to suppose he could last several minutes in it without fully insulated/pressurized protection simply because Timelords are hardcore like that. 2. There was also the fake-out regeneration a few episodes later. Could've been a continuation from Oxygen, or could've been him accidentally triggering a regeneration sequence (which itself would be new, because until now regeneration only happened when the body was dying....but not dying so completely as to prevent regeneration). 3. That which is called a "regeneration episode" has always been the episode in which the regeneration in fact happens.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 18:56:00 GMT
Whatever happens at Christmas, World Enough And Time/The Doctor Falls is the regeneration because that's when the regeneration process started. To me it was Caves of Androzani quality. I think Christmas will be great but it's not the regeneration story, it's an aside telling the story of the Doctor wanting to regenerate again. 1. Well, no, we don't know that. Someone else pointed out that the new series introduced a healing phase and a changing phase to regenerating. But this is the first time he's shown actively fighting to suppress it once the changing phase starts. There aren't rules for this. He could have fatally damaged himself in Oxygen and that's when it started, for example. After all, space is pretty deadly, and it was a fantastic stretch to suppose he could last several minutes in it without fully insulated/pressurized protection simply because Timelords are hardcore like that. 2. There was also the fake-out regeneration a few episodes later. Could've been a continuation from Oxygen, or could've been him accidentally triggering a regeneration sequence (which itself would be new, because until now regeneration only happened when the body was dying....but not dying so completely as to prevent regeneration). 3. That which is called a "regeneration episode" has always been the episode in which the regeneration in fact happens. This has kind of been a regeneration season rather than a season with one regeneration story. Moffat did say they were doing something different with regeneration this time.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 3, 2017 20:01:00 GMT
Whatever happens at Christmas, World Enough And Time/The Doctor Falls is the regeneration because that's when the regeneration process started. To me it was Caves of Androzani quality. I think Christmas will be great but it's not the regeneration story, it's an aside telling the story of the Doctor wanting to regenerate again. 1. Well, no, we don't know that. Someone else pointed out that the new series introduced a healing phase and a changing phase to regenerating. But this is the first time he's shown actively fighting to suppress it once the changing phase starts. There aren't rules for this. He could have fatally damaged himself in Oxygen and that's when it started, for example. After all, space is pretty deadly, and it was a fantastic stretch to suppose he could last several minutes in it without fully insulated/pressurized protection simply because Timelords are hardcore like that. 2. There was also the fake-out regeneration a few episodes later. Could've been a continuation from Oxygen, or could've been him accidentally triggering a regeneration sequence (which itself would be new, because until now regeneration only happened when the body was dying....but not dying so completely as to prevent regeneration). 3. That which is called a "regeneration episode" has always been the episode in which the regeneration in fact happens. I can't see them revealing the regeneration process started elsewhere. It would be a pointless reveal and make no sense. How come the Doctor was able to continue on as normal if he's been holding back his regeneration all this time?
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 3, 2017 20:16:27 GMT
I can't see them revealing the regeneration process started elsewhere. It would be a pointless reveal and make no sense. How come the Doctor was able to continue on as normal if he's been holding back his regeneration all this time? Because he is a fictional character and not real.
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Post by mrperson on Jul 3, 2017 20:24:47 GMT
I can't see them revealing the regeneration process started elsewhere. It would be a pointless reveal and make no sense. How come the Doctor was able to continue on as normal if he's been holding back his regeneration all this time? They may not make it explicit. But they did hint at it. Maybe it really did start just at the end when he got a bit blown up. Maybe it started earlier when he was electrocuted by a cyberman. Maybe it started in one of the earlier points I mentioned. :shrug: It's not like there are any rules about how long he can suppress the change part of a regeneration. This is the first time it was a thing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 20:24:54 GMT
1. Well, no, we don't know that. Someone else pointed out that the new series introduced a healing phase and a changing phase to regenerating. But this is the first time he's shown actively fighting to suppress it once the changing phase starts. There aren't rules for this. He could have fatally damaged himself in Oxygen and that's when it started, for example. After all, space is pretty deadly, and it was a fantastic stretch to suppose he could last several minutes in it without fully insulated/pressurized protection simply because Timelords are hardcore like that. 2. There was also the fake-out regeneration a few episodes later. Could've been a continuation from Oxygen, or could've been him accidentally triggering a regeneration sequence (which itself would be new, because until now regeneration only happened when the body was dying....but not dying so completely as to prevent regeneration). 3. That which is called a "regeneration episode" has always been the episode in which the regeneration in fact happens. I can't see them revealing the regeneration process started elsewhere. It would be a pointless reveal and make no sense. How come the Doctor was able to continue on as normal if he's been holding back his regeneration all this time? Well what else do you think was going on when he kept leaking regeneration energy? What about all those times Missy could tell something was really wrong with him?
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 3, 2017 20:28:49 GMT
I can't see them revealing the regeneration process started elsewhere. It would be a pointless reveal and make no sense. How come the Doctor was able to continue on as normal if he's been holding back his regeneration all this time? They may not make it explicit. But they did hint at it. Maybe it really did start just at the end when he got a bit blown up. Maybe it started earlier when he was electrocuted by a cyberman. Maybe it started in one of the earlier points I mentioned. :shrug: It's not like there are any rules about how long he can suppress the change part of a regeneration. This is the first time it was a thing. And who knows, it is the first regeneration of his new cycle. Maybe this is different. There are all kinds of way Moffat could go if indeed that is the game he is playing. Or he could not explain it at all.
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Post by mrperson on Jul 3, 2017 20:45:39 GMT
They may not make it explicit. But they did hint at it. Maybe it really did start just at the end when he got a bit blown up. Maybe it started earlier when he was electrocuted by a cyberman. Maybe it started in one of the earlier points I mentioned. :shrug: It's not like there are any rules about how long he can suppress the change part of a regeneration. This is the first time it was a thing. And who knows, it is the first regeneration of his new cycle. Maybe this is different. There are all kinds of way Moffat could go if indeed that is the game he is playing. Or he could not explain it at all. And, I might add, there may even be no in-universe rules. The Doctor is the only Timelord we've actually seen being given a new regeneration cycle. And even Rassilon, who presumably but not necessarily was also gifted the same, didn't even know how much juice they gave him. So, it could be completely new ground in-universe as well (but probably not likely if some of those John Hurt episodes are anything to go by; probably one of the first things they'd have thought of). Anyway, I hope the 1st-12th interactions are as well done as they could be. (Though really, I'd love to hear something like early S8 Capaldi and first season 1. Curmudgeon overdose).
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 3, 2017 22:50:37 GMT
I can't see them revealing the regeneration process started elsewhere. It would be a pointless reveal and make no sense. How come the Doctor was able to continue on as normal if he's been holding back his regeneration all this time? They may not make it explicit. But they did hint at it. Maybe it really did start just at the end when he got a bit blown up. Maybe it started earlier when he was electrocuted by a cyberman. Maybe it started in one of the earlier points I mentioned. :shrug: It's not like there are any rules about how long he can suppress the change part of a regeneration. This is the first time it was a thing. Actually, he also did it in The End of Time in order to go on a farewell tour.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 3, 2017 22:51:57 GMT
I can't see them revealing the regeneration process started elsewhere. It would be a pointless reveal and make no sense. How come the Doctor was able to continue on as normal if he's been holding back his regeneration all this time? Well what else do you think was going on when he kept leaking regeneration energy? What about all those times Missy could tell something was really wrong with him? When Missy said that I thought the Lie regeneration was real, but I think if it had been he would have been shown to be struggling in The Eaters of Light and World Enough and Time. Plus it would have been mentioned in the finale.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 15:54:43 GMT
Top 12 Capaldi episodes, you say? I love a list, although this is pretty difficult. No pain, no gain.
1. World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls - beautiful and scary. Tragic and hopeful. 2. Under the Lake/Before the Flood - a terrific, underrated gem. 3. Deep Breath - from The Doctor and Clara's first conversation in the 'restaurant', I knew Capaldi was a winner. 4. Thin Ice - breathtakingly good. 5. The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar - Clara's predicament and Davros' duplicity - wonderful. 6. Dark Water/Death in Heaven - Steven Moffat writes for the Cybermen as well as anyone, and better than most. 7. Last Christmas - my favourite Christmas special. Well, until 2017's one. 8. Flatline - beautiful. 9. Kill the Moon - why the dislike? 'The moon is an egg' is hardly the most ridiculous Doctor Who concept. 10. Empress of Mars - a beleter from Mr Gatiss. 11. Knock Knock - creepy and maleancholy. 12. The Pilot - Doctor Who relaunches with greatness and unexpected resonance!
Al in all, I've loved PC's time as The Doctor. Unlike many other eras (especially the 2005+), it actually got better as it went on, in my view.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 4, 2017 18:45:13 GMT
. 3. Deep Breath - from The Doctor and Clara's first conversation in the 'restaurant', I knew Capaldi was a winner. Same here. On of the new series' best scenes. It feels like Moffat is a Cyberman person and RTD is more Dalek. The show's central premise is more ridiculous than the moon as an egg!
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Post by Barnacle Crawlins on Jul 4, 2017 19:01:15 GMT
Well speaking for me personally, I wanted to like that one but I didn't. I have long been fascinated by the Robin Hood legend and the era that most depictions are set (which wasn't necessarily the correct one going by ballads but I digress) so I made an effort to tune in. You'd think I did like it more due to all the socialism that was sneaked into it but no. I thought it was silly rather than fun, the plot was illogical, the (inaccurate and ugly) costumes were terrible (especially Robin Hoods) the whole premise of Robots looking like (inaccurate and unrealistic) knights was way too daft and didn't work well. The Doctor's insistence of Robin Hood being just a myth considering he'd visited the Trojan War and been involved with other "origins of myths", was a bit strange. I know that 'Doctor Who' is an entertainment program but I wish they'd try harder to make the periods look a bit more like what we know of them. It really takes me out; offenders were those ones set in the 1100s where Missy says to look for anachronisms but the whole thing is (costumes, castle etc), the Viking one (this angered me; they even gave them horns etc despite the fact even in the Whoverse they don't traditionally), this Robin Hood one and the ones with (the over-used) Romans that seem to get worse every appearance. Although the medieval ones are worse maybe the Roman ones show the most laziness as everyone knows what Romans look like . They could at least give Centurions the right plume... So that is another thing I hope this next era does better; depicting historical eras. In the classic show they at least seemed to try a bit harder (not that they were 100% accurate) in the year 2017 (when you can comparatively cheaply buy reenactment gear) they should be doing better. I couldn't care less about accuracy personally. It's a sci-fi show, it's not supposed to be realistic. I still maintain there is nothing wrong with a bit of fun, and it was hardly the show's most illogical plot. As for the Doctor not believing in Robin Hood - it's a bit of fun! I think I'm also right in saying the First Doctor didn't believe the Trojan horse was real until he suggested the idea that created the myth. Yes but it is also a time travel show and though it isn't a documentary and this doesn't have to be 100% I think even bairns know that (for example) Viking's didn't have horns on their helmets. As I say it takes me out; I'm not saying they have to be 100% accurate; that recent one set in Regency London had items of fashion from around ten years later but that didn't take me out, it was still from the rough era and it was obviously a budget thing. Same with the Middle Ages, I couldn't care less if it is 100% but as I know that plate-mail hadn't been invented for hundreds of years after the 1140s seeing a character in plate-mail takes me out of it and makes it harder to suspend my disbelief. I've always liked history and been fascinated by other eras so I tend to like the idea of historical settings in 'Doctor Who' which is why I'd like an improvement. Let's put it this way would things be less "fun" just because they look a bit more realistic? I don't think so and for people who have favorite historical eras being depicted, maybe it would be more fun? Yeah, my point about the Trojan War was that the Doctor has already gone through that; if the Doctor was dismissive of a myth the first time ('The Myth Makers') that is fine, the second time ...okay, maybe... ('The Underwater Menace'), The third time ('The Time Monster') yeah I think he's getting that myths are based in fact now, the three-hundred and fiftieth time ; come on Doctor just believe it already, Robin Hood is no more unlikely than Atlantis! As for the story itself; replace, "fun" with "boring run-a-round" and you have my opinion of it.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Jul 4, 2017 19:41:31 GMT
I love Robot Of Sherwood, dumb camp but clean hilarious family fun.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 4, 2017 21:26:05 GMT
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 5, 2017 9:10:04 GMT
I couldn't care less about accuracy personally. It's a sci-fi show, it's not supposed to be realistic. I still maintain there is nothing wrong with a bit of fun, and it was hardly the show's most illogical plot. As for the Doctor not believing in Robin Hood - it's a bit of fun! I think I'm also right in saying the First Doctor didn't believe the Trojan horse was real until he suggested the idea that created the myth. Yes but it is also a time travel show and though it isn't a documentary and this doesn't have to be 100% I think even bairns know that (for example) Viking's didn't have horns on their helmets. As I say it takes me out; I'm not saying they have to be 100% accurate; that recent one set in Regency London had items of fashion from around ten years later but that didn't take me out, it was still from the rough era and it was obviously a budget thing. Same with the Middle Ages, I couldn't care less if it is 100% but as I know that plate-mail hadn't been invented for hundreds of years after the 1140s seeing a character in plate-mail takes me out of it and makes it harder to suspend my disbelief. I've always liked history and been fascinated by other eras so I tend to like the idea of historical settings in 'Doctor Who' which is why I'd like an improvement. Let's put it this way would things be less "fun" just because they look a bit more realistic? I don't think so and for people who have favorite historical eras being depicted, maybe it would be more fun? Yeah, my point about the Trojan War was that the Doctor has already gone through that; if the Doctor was dismissive of a myth the first time ('The Myth Makers') that is fine, the second time ...okay, maybe... ('The Underwater Menace'), The third time ('The Time Monster') yeah I think he's getting that myths are based in fact now, the three-hundred and fiftieth time ; come on Doctor just believe it already, Robin Hood is no more unlikely than Atlantis! As for the story itself; replace, "fun" with "boring run-a-round" and you have my opinion of it. I don't think many watch Doctor Who for historic accuracy, and Vikings with horn helmets is an iconic image so it makes sense for them to be used in mainstream dramas even if its not historically correct. The Doctor didn't create the Robin Hood myth as he did the Trojan Horse. Just because some myths turned out to be true doesn't necessarily mean he'd stop being a sceptic. He's also a Doctor who has lived for a long time. Your examples of The Myth Makers, The Underwater Menace and The Time Monster were ages ago for him. He probably has a pretty hazy memory.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jul 5, 2017 10:30:18 GMT
Yes but it is also a time travel show and though it isn't a documentary and this doesn't have to be 100% I think even bairns know that (for example) Viking's didn't have horns on their helmets. As I say it takes me out; I'm not saying they have to be 100% accurate; that recent one set in Regency London had items of fashion from around ten years later but that didn't take me out, it was still from the rough era and it was obviously a budget thing. Same with the Middle Ages, I couldn't care less if it is 100% but as I know that plate-mail hadn't been invented for hundreds of years after the 1140s seeing a character in plate-mail takes me out of it and makes it harder to suspend my disbelief. I've always liked history and been fascinated by other eras so I tend to like the idea of historical settings in 'Doctor Who' which is why I'd like an improvement. Let's put it this way would things be less "fun" just because they look a bit more realistic? I don't think so and for people who have favorite historical eras being depicted, maybe it would be more fun? Yeah, my point about the Trojan War was that the Doctor has already gone through that; if the Doctor was dismissive of a myth the first time ('The Myth Makers') that is fine, the second time ...okay, maybe... ('The Underwater Menace'), The third time ('The Time Monster') yeah I think he's getting that myths are based in fact now, the three-hundred and fiftieth time ; come on Doctor just believe it already, Robin Hood is no more unlikely than Atlantis! As for the story itself; replace, "fun" with "boring run-a-round" and you have my opinion of it. I don't think many watch Doctor Who for historic accuracy, and Vikings with horn helmets is an iconic image so it makes sense for them to be used in mainstream dramas even if its not historically correct. The Doctor didn't create the Robin Hood myth as he did the Trojan Horse. Just because some myths turned out to be true doesn't necessarily mean he'd stop being a sceptic. He's also a Doctor who has lived for a long time. Your examples of The Myth Makers, The Underwater Menace and The Time Monster were ages ago for him. He probably has a pretty hazy memory. Don't the Vikings have horned helmets in the who-niverse?
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