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Post by mrperson on Jul 27, 2017 23:26:41 GMT
The show will be fine. It's about to do what it always does, re-invent itself with a new Doctor and a new production team. I'm sure the press of a female Doctor will drive initial viewership numbers up. By the time episode 3 or 4 is transmitted we will have a much better idea of what this version of the show is going to be and people with open minds will decide if this Doctor is for them. And that's not to say that the close-minded who utterly loathe the idea won't (I believe the expression is) hate-watch it as well, just to have something to complain about. *pats hand* So it's covered however the chips fall. The open-minded and close minded will likely both take a stab at it. I am curious though. Is "hate-watchers" a thing we say about them because they invariably just trash the episode without knowing what they really feel? It is well-used for people who seem to watch everything but complain about every minute of it, but the idea that a person would find that worth doing seems incredibly weird to me. I have to wonder: is there really a person who literally enjoys the hating of watching something they hate? This does not seem similar to, say, watching a terrible movie with friends to play MST3k* with it, if you will. That can be a one-off, different from following season after season despite hating it. Perhaps there's more going on in their head. Perhaps some dysfunction, whereby they secretly (even to themselves, that is) enjoy it but some other layer of their person clashes with that liking, so they always watch it but what they end up saying about it is always negative. It does seem utterly bizarre to me that someone would watch something they thoroughly hate, unless this is some odd twist on masochism I'm not aware of. It would seem like such an inexplicable waste of time. Why not just hit yourself on the head with a hammer? Rent a dominatrix? Watch Barney or Teletubbies? Then again, I'm only a juris Doctor, not a psychologist or psychiatrist. Anyway, that's my rambling over. * Mystery Science Theatre 3000. Old U.S. Comedy Central show where people would crack jokes about terrible old movies, usually sci-fi, over the dialogue.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jul 27, 2017 23:54:45 GMT
The casting of a woman is a big mistake, irrelevent what actress they picked! Fans are arguing amongst themselves, whilst Steven Moffat lives in cloud cuckoo land denying there is a backlash! I know fans how will not watch series 11. Doctor Who may have just died! Brie is a very nice cheese. If you deep fry it in little teeny cubes it is just divine. And as someone who is allergic to some other types of cheese, why I relish it even more. Have you tried it with a sort of pickle or sweet sauce? Hmm, lovely.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 0:23:06 GMT
To be honest, you're all speculating. We don't know what's going to happen. But they're planning on broadcasting Series 11 in autumn 2018, which might be bad because people may have forgotten about Whittaker. However, I somewhat expect there will be an Easter special due to production beginning in September, October or November. And we're the ones speculating? I'm saying I'm speculating.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 0:24:50 GMT
Yeah, an Easter special when there's a full series just a few months down the line from that? That's about as speculative as it gets. I'd say there's little chance of that happening. Christmas, then new series in August/September is the safe bet. Well, I'm just a little surprised they'd start production a few months earlier than usual. A series is about 8 months production, so... it'll end production much earlier than any of Capaldi's series, so I'm thinking that they might do it, but I'm definitely not certain.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 28, 2017 0:25:50 GMT
And we're the ones speculating? I'm saying I'm speculating. Really? Okay.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 0:26:55 GMT
And that's not to say that the close-minded who utterly loathe the idea won't (I believe the expression is) hate-watch it as well, just to have something to complain about. *pats hand* So it's covered however the chips fall. The open-minded and close minded will likely both take a stab at it. I am curious though. Is "hate-watchers" a thing we say about them because they invariably just trash the episode without knowing what they really feel? It is well-used for people who seem to watch everything but complain about every minute of it, but the idea that a person would find that worth doing seems incredibly weird to me. I have to wonder: is there really a person who literally enjoys the hating of watching something they hate? This does not seem similar to, say, watching a terrible movie with friends to play MST3k* with it, if you will. That can be a one-off, different from following season after season despite hating it. Perhaps there's more going on in their head. Perhaps some dysfunction, whereby they secretly (even to themselves, that is) enjoy it but some other layer of their person clashes with that liking, so they always watch it but what they end up saying about it is always negative. Puzzles the will, don't it? Yep, that's exactly what it is. And that's not a bad theory, perhaps it really is just misdirected energy. The inability to reconcile the part of themselves that enjoys something like Myst, but also laughs at cat videos.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 0:27:13 GMT
And that's not to say that the close-minded who utterly loathe the idea won't (I believe the expression is) hate-watch it as well, just to have something to complain about. *pats hand* So it's covered however the chips fall. The open-minded and close minded will likely both take a stab at it. While I absolutely agree, I think that has always been the case. Those who hated RTD wouldn't miss an episode and deny themselves a really meaty opportunity to lay the boot in anything they didn't recognise as 'their' Doctor Who. Steven Moffat has really taken some flak from those rushing to the forums the second an episode has ended to benefit everyone with their '1 out of 10' scores. Jodie and Chris - welcome to Doctor Who! (I believe this is what Mark Gatiss meant when he considered the role as showrunner for Who to be a 'poisoned chalice'.) It'd certainly be a poison chalice for someone as divisive as Gatiss. I mean Moffat's divisive, but he's even more so. There's even a select amount of people out there who despise RTD's run. And - considering the show's position today - I think Chibnall was going to get criticized whatever he did. So will his run probably.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 0:27:41 GMT
I'm saying I'm speculating. Really? Okay.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 0:28:53 GMT
While I absolutely agree, I think that has always been the case. Those who hated RTD wouldn't miss an episode and deny themselves a really meaty opportunity to lay the boot in anything they didn't recognise as 'their' Doctor Who. Steven Moffat has really taken some flak from those rushing to the forums the second an episode has ended to benefit everyone with their '1 out of 10' scores. If they bother to even watch the episode in question before logging on to trash it. They do. As mentioned prior, Moffat's tenure has been very divisive.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 28, 2017 0:29:19 GMT
Wow! Another personal attack on me! To be fair, it's a long line.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 28, 2017 0:36:44 GMT
If they bother to even watch the episode in question before logging on to trash it. They do. As mentioned prior, Moffat's tenure has been very divisive. Every tenure on the show has been divisive. People always think "their" Doctor Who was better. Or was something else. Again, it really boils down to how you view the conceit of the series since it decided it wanted to continue without its original actor. People will always find something to criticize or dump on. Be it Innes Lloyd or Derick Sherman or Barry Letts or Philip Hinchcliffe or John Nathan Turner or Russell T Davies or Steven Moffat. Anytime a show changes people are going to get up in arms about something. It's going to happen with Chibnall. I don't see where Moffat is more or less divisive than anyone else who has run the show.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 0:40:02 GMT
They do. As mentioned prior, Moffat's tenure has been very divisive. Every tenure on the show has been divisive. People always think "their" Doctor Who was better. Or was something else. Again, it really boils down to how you view the conceit of the series since it decided it wanted to continue without its original actor. People will always find something to criticize or dump on. Be it Innes Lloyd or Derick Sherman or Barry Letts or Philip Hinchcliffe or John Nathan Turner or Russell T Davies or Steven Moffat. Anytime a show changes people are going to get up in arms about something. It's going to happen with Chibnall. I don't see where Moffat is more or less divisive than anyone else who has run the show. You're probably right, but I think the divisiveness of this era has been more obvious due to certain things people REALLY disagree with. Such as Clara, River Song (mainly during Matt Smith), Missy and the Time-Lords not dying.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jul 28, 2017 0:44:15 GMT
Every tenure on the show has been divisive. People always think "their" Doctor Who was better. Or was something else. Again, it really boils down to how you view the conceit of the series since it decided it wanted to continue without its original actor. People will always find something to criticize or dump on. Be it Innes Lloyd or Derick Sherman or Barry Letts or Philip Hinchcliffe or John Nathan Turner or Russell T Davies or Steven Moffat. Anytime a show changes people are going to get up in arms about something. It's going to happen with Chibnall. I don't see where Moffat is more or less divisive than anyone else who has run the show. You're probably right, but I think the divisiveness of this era has been more obvious due to certain things people REALLY disagree with. Such as Clara, River Song (mainly during Matt Smith), Missy and the Time-Lords not dying. The Time Lords were always going to come back though, if Moffatt didn't do it someone else would. Now, what I would have had the Doctor doing is tracking down places like Minyos where there had been Time Lord influence back in the day, just trying to find a bit of home. In much the same way that my friend Eva like visiting Ikea, because it reminds her of home, she being Swedish and all!
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 28, 2017 0:45:28 GMT
Every tenure on the show has been divisive. People always think "their" Doctor Who was better. Or was something else. Again, it really boils down to how you view the conceit of the series since it decided it wanted to continue without its original actor. People will always find something to criticize or dump on. Be it Innes Lloyd or Derick Sherman or Barry Letts or Philip Hinchcliffe or John Nathan Turner or Russell T Davies or Steven Moffat. Anytime a show changes people are going to get up in arms about something. It's going to happen with Chibnall. I don't see where Moffat is more or less divisive than anyone else who has run the show. You're probably right, but I think the divisiveness of this era has been more obvious due to certain things people REALLY disagree with. Such as Clara, River Song (mainly during Matt Smith), Missy and the Time-Lords not dying. I would argue that it seems more divisive because of things like the internet, message boards and social media.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 28, 2017 0:50:58 GMT
Every tenure on the show has been divisive. People always think "their" Doctor Who was better. Or was something else. Again, it really boils down to how you view the conceit of the series since it decided it wanted to continue without its original actor. People will always find something to criticize or dump on. Be it Innes Lloyd or Derick Sherman or Barry Letts or Philip Hinchcliffe or John Nathan Turner or Russell T Davies or Steven Moffat. Anytime a show changes people are going to get up in arms about something. It's going to happen with Chibnall. I don't see where Moffat is more or less divisive than anyone else who has run the show. You're probably right, but I think the divisiveness of this era has been more obvious due to certain things people REALLY disagree with. Such as Clara, River Song (mainly during Matt Smith), Missy and the Time-Lords not dying. I've said over & over again through the years I thought Clara was a terrible companion but honestly I've felt that way about several companions through the show's history. The people who have gone over the bend because of Missy, or now the 13th Doctor, were always going to go over the bend over a gender swap. Again, I just feel like the internet has amplified those voices. I'd be willing to bet that people who spend hours a day debating about stuff like that are in a very small minority and don't reflect the vast number of people who like Doctor Who on its own terms as show and don't really care about the things we obsess over. And I agree with the above comment, at some point Gallifrey was always going to come back and the Time-War was going to be explored a little bit. Personally, I hope one of the changes we see is Gallifrey coming back full force.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 1:16:14 GMT
You're probably right, but I think the divisiveness of this era has been more obvious due to certain things people REALLY disagree with. Such as Clara, River Song (mainly during Matt Smith), Missy and the Time-Lords not dying. The Time Lords were always going to come back though, if Moffatt didn't do it someone else would. Now, what I would have had the Doctor doing is tracking down places like Minyos where there had been Time Lord influence back in the day, just trying to find a bit of home. In much the same way that my friend Eva like visiting Ikea, because it reminds her of home, she being Swedish and all! That's what I would have liked to see. Either that or a season long quest to locate Gallifrey where the Doctor pieces together bits of evidence from his adventures. I'm not a big proponent of The Day of the Doctor precisely because of the reset switch it appears to throw in regards to the Time War. I don't like how it robs two, three incarnations of dramatic weight and reduces their suffering to what could now be called yawping. More pressingly though, it also makes some really nasty (and 100% completely accidental) implications regarding PTSD, which I really didn't appreciate at the time and still don't. It's one of the few things that I put my foot down and don't shrug off when I think of retcons. River is fine, I'm not fond of her, but that's my loss; Clara is fine, she's a companion that will probably undergo a Big Finish revitalisation in the future sometime like Adric (I'm continually amazed at Morris and Dorney completely turning the character around in just two stories). But for me, the undeath of the Time Lords always makes me wince because it deals very badly with a very personal topic.
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Post by omega on Jul 28, 2017 2:11:44 GMT
Every tenure on the show has been divisive. People always think "their" Doctor Who was better. Or was something else. Again, it really boils down to how you view the conceit of the series since it decided it wanted to continue without its original actor. People will always find something to criticize or dump on. Be it Innes Lloyd or Derick Sherman or Barry Letts or Philip Hinchcliffe or John Nathan Turner or Russell T Davies or Steven Moffat. Anytime a show changes people are going to get up in arms about something. It's going to happen with Chibnall. I don't see where Moffat is more or less divisive than anyone else who has run the show. You're probably right, but I think the divisiveness of this era has been more obvious due to certain things people REALLY disagree with. Such as Clara, River Song (mainly during Matt Smith), Missy and the Time-Lords not dying. Not to mention the rise of social media during Moffat's time as showrunner. It's easier than ever for people to anonymously share their distaste. Contrast to the 60's-80's, where at most it would have been angry letters to Radio Timed and later whatever DWM was calling itself then or the 90's and early 2000's where it was only really the fans who were going on message boards to complain about Space Bitch Ace and Looms.
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Post by relativetime on Jul 28, 2017 3:06:01 GMT
The Time Lords were always going to come back though, if Moffatt didn't do it someone else would. Now, what I would have had the Doctor doing is tracking down places like Minyos where there had been Time Lord influence back in the day, just trying to find a bit of home. In much the same way that my friend Eva like visiting Ikea, because it reminds her of home, she being Swedish and all! That's what I would have liked to see. Either that or a season long quest to locate Gallifrey where the Doctor pieces together bits of evidence from his adventures. I'm not a big proponent of The Day of the Doctor precisely because of the reset switch it appears to throw in regards to the Time War. I don't like how it robs two, three incarnations of dramatic weight and reduces their suffering to what could now be called yawping. More pressingly though, it also makes some really nasty (and 100% completely accidental) implications regarding PTSD, which I really didn't appreciate at the time and still don't. It's one of the few things that I put my foot down and don't shrug off when I think of retcons. River is fine, I'm not fond of her, but that's my loss; Clara is fine, she's a companion that will probably undergo a Big Finish revitalisation in the future sometime like Adric (I'm continually amazed at Morris and Dorney completely turning the character around in just two stories). But for me, the undeath of the Time Lords always makes me wince because it deals very badly with a very personal topic. Yeah, I agree. While I think Gallifrey's return was bound to happen, I wasn't all that pleased with how it was done - it could have been done much better and with more respect to the weight that decision deserves.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 4:36:08 GMT
Every tenure on the show has been divisive. People always think "their" Doctor Who was better. Or was something else. Again, it really boils down to how you view the conceit of the series since it decided it wanted to continue without its original actor. People will always find something to criticize or dump on. Be it Innes Lloyd or Derick Sherman or Barry Letts or Philip Hinchcliffe or John Nathan Turner or Russell T Davies or Steven Moffat. Anytime a show changes people are going to get up in arms about something. It's going to happen with Chibnall. I don't see where Moffat is more or less divisive than anyone else who has run the show. You're probably right, but I think the divisiveness of this era has been more obvious due to certain things people REALLY disagree with. Such as Clara, River Song (mainly during Matt Smith), Missy and the Time-Lords not dying. Keep in mind, I'm a man writing this. I think Clara suffered a bit from fandom being overanalytical. In season seven, she's clearly meant to be a strong role model smart, determined and completly unabashed about it, while being empathetic and loyal and a foil to Amy - not being afraid to challenge or keep up with The Doctor. And while I understand people wanted more development in her character, it was an anniversary year with a reduced number of episodes. I'm not saying compliants weren't valid - although, I do kind of argue with that we didn't. What is Clara meant to be -eighteen? Nineteen? She's about to see the world, she's clearly going to set that stuff out later. The Day of The Doctor, given the settled dynamic, is clearly set quite sometime after The Name of The Doctor, so I'm fine with it. Clara saw the world and time and space and decided on what she wants out of life. Moffat for season eight did kind of overhaul the character in response to fan criticism (and I kind of wish he held back, to be honest) - making her more flawed (lying to Danny and The Doctor, insulting Blue), he went too far and for me the character was unreconcisable. I don't hate the Clara of series eight and nine (I actually love how the show handles the transition into adult life and relationships) and she doesn't exactly bug me the way other fans do, but it wasn't a seamless transition by any means. The edges were coming and I just wish fandom had been more patient and understanding about it.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jul 28, 2017 7:16:23 GMT
Mayybe its my bipolar, maybe it's because I'm a grumpy ole sod but i have told these fans who preach nonsense to me when they tell me I'm not a true fan or I'd except change i tell them to f..k off, not because there opinion differs from mine but because i ain't sexist & i "AM" a true fan (30 mile journeys in the 90's to get latest NA,MA novels) but this casting of a female Doctor has certainly diminished my love for the show as i feel it's the wrong direction to take the show & nearly 2 weeks on i feel numb towards Doctor Who & I've even broke down in tears with despair (my mental health is affecting my moods) as i know on Christmas Day 2017 I'll never feel the love i once felt for the show & when i hear the name Doctor Who' now i cringe embarrassed. Its neither of those things buddy, it's the finger pointing and sneering at your point of view that diminishes your feelings. and I know it's well meant but the constant give it a chance doesn't help how you feel. pulling back is exactly the right way to go, but don't let it spoil its past glories, give it a rest for sure but you will come back to it once it's all settled down even if you don't carry on with the new stuff. my only advice is distract yourself with some thing else, re-watch old movies, re-read old books & comics and play games that don't require too much online interaction. Why not not join me in the Star Wars universe, there is a shed load of content both old and new.....clone wars is defiantly worth a re watch! & the new comics are excellent. Stay lurking on here, cause everyone's mostly good people, but don't get involved in arguments and discussions beyond making your point, you don't need to justify your points. stay safe buddy. You read my mind again my friend it's like you know my exact thoughts lol, I'm gaming & enjoying other stuff, Doctor Who is a big part of my life but thankfully i have other interests to keep me entertained while I'm feeling this way.
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