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Post by fitzoliverj on Feb 9, 2020 20:08:34 GMT
S'alright. Could've been better, could've been "Orphan 55".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 20:10:35 GMT
I thoroughly enjoyed that. Truly, this series is turning into something very special for even this jaded old viewer. It might have been a bit 'with one leap it was all over,' but the story was a very good one, with great performances. My favourite moments, though, were the quieter ones, the reflective ones. Yaz, Ryan and Graham all have their own problems - of course they do - which as are just as bleak and mind-consuming anything they may meet on their TARDIS travels. And of course, that is extended to all of us. Lovely episode. It looked great, as this series has done throughout, and yes, Segun's music was the perfect accompaniment. And Frankenstein next week? The Doctor encounters the creator of my personal favourite piece of fiction ever written? Wonderful.
'We belong dead!'
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 9, 2020 20:15:06 GMT
Good episode that was so close to being a classic - great direction and atmosphere thanks to Sullivan and the production team, Gelder gives one hell of a guest performance and the subject is massively commendable (unlike christmas, I'd argue they didn't do enough with it and it wasn't thick enough). However, I don't think they did enough with some characters to make the resolution land the way the episode wants, especially with this kind of message.
I'll talk more about it later, but I will say that I'd like to see James return next series, as she's got a good imagination on her.
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Feb 9, 2020 20:15:47 GMT
Is it weird that out of everything that happened in that episode, the most unbelievable part was the Doctor using a flat surface to jettison her Screwdriver out of her coat pocket. I found it kinda funny, but someone I was watching with just shouted "**** off!" XD
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 20:17:07 GMT
The resolution was a bit rushed but overall that was another great episode, spooky & mysterious. I'm sure I wasn't the only one initially assumed the imprisoned immortal was the Timeless Child.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 9, 2020 20:18:12 GMT
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Post by sherlock on Feb 9, 2020 20:19:10 GMT
Good stuff. Nice for some top tier foes to make an appearance (other than the Beast, the new series hasn’t really dabbled in immortals) and the mental health elements were neat, but I do wish more time had been spent on the dreams (akin to how the SIA gang spent time railing against their nightmares in The Nightmare Man). The resolution was all a bit quick (maybe actually seeing the monster being tamed would have helped), but other than that all good.
Its nice that the fam have finally been given more backstory, though it does come weirdly late in the day.
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melkur
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,967
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Post by melkur on Feb 9, 2020 20:23:47 GMT
Is it weird that out of everything that happened in that episode, the most unbelievable part was the Doctor using a flat surface to jettison her Screwdriver out of her coat pocket. I found it kinda funny, but someone I was watching with just shouted "**** off!" XD Yeah, sorry about that... 'It got a very "... Seems legit" reaction out of me.
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melkur
Chancellery Guard
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Post by melkur on Feb 9, 2020 20:26:28 GMT
Whilst I would say that the defeat was a little convenient, I also really enjoyed tonight's episode... Now, why couldn't the last series have been this consistently good?
"So, we have an old bloke, a black guy & an Asian? When're we getting a lesbian?"
I don't know father, maybe when you start shutting up about it?...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 20:29:46 GMT
Now, why couldn't the last series have been this consistently good? I am one of those people who enjoyed the last season but agree that this is far more consistent, the whole thing feels more confident & the pace of the episodes is better. In fact I can't remember when I enjoyed a season of Dr Who as much as this.
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Post by number13 on Feb 9, 2020 21:13:53 GMT
A noble aim and a good message and the last five minutes did it very well, but was it only me who thought the sudden change in pace and tone was like the episode doing a handbrake turn? One minute it's all action and monsters and 'gods' who eat nightmares, the next it's normal life here and now and the reality of what being human can mean.
On the 'Who' side of the story, before I realised where the episode was going, I thought the buildup was great - historical setting with monsters always ticks the boxes for me - and there was so much buildup I was briefly expecting a two-parter, then remembered we already know where we're going next week. Which meant the resolution to the action story would be rushed and sure enough, it was, quick twirl of the sonic (and there is no way the Doctor could have flipped it out her pocket like she did but never mind, I guess she's a Time Lord so she can! ) and job done. Naturally, I loved the three-for-the-price-of-one mentions of old characters - Eternals, Guardians, the Toymaker - but I don't think we ever heard the female immortal's name and if he was Zelin (and excellent), oh how I wanted her to be The Terrible Zodin! But on reading the credits, she wasn't; oh well.
However, I think the important theme of mental health would have been better served by the immortals playing their game in a story with more emphasis on the internal dreamworlds of the characters (those parts worked really well imo) and probably keeping it an earthbound, present-day story too. All the spaceships, quantum prisons and colliding worlds were just distracting 'noise' when we come right down to it, so were the monsters and the Doctor's quick jaunt in history too for that matter. Something of the strange atmosphere of 'It Takes You Away' would have been more my cup of tea for this one, but in Sheffield.
On the other hand, I can well imagine a lot of younger viewers enjoying all the scary flying fingers and spaceships and monsters and being bored to sleep by the last five minutes!
A good attempt at an important theme, but for me the episode overall was only a partial success.
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Post by shallacatop on Feb 9, 2020 21:16:01 GMT
Really enjoyed this one. It looked great and plenty of good material for our leads. I liked the subversion where it seemed like the guest characters would take centre stage, but it’s the three companions that get their own moments to shine, with Yaz’s story being the highlight. I loved Graham and the Doctor’s exchange in the TARDIS.
My criticism is the abrupt resolution to the story. I understand it’s done in order to give time to the epilogue, which is brilliant, but it’s a shame we didn’t have another ten minutes to the episode.
I don’t normally dabble in spoilers, but I could’ve sworn I saw an image of the Black & White Guardians on the streets. Am I misremembering or a deleted scene?
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Post by mark687 on Feb 9, 2020 21:18:54 GMT
Really enjoyed this one. It looked great and plenty of good material for our leads. I liked the subversion where it seemed like the guest characters would take centre stage, but it’s the three companions that get their own moments to shine, with Yaz’s story being the highlight. I loved Graham and the Doctor’s exchange in the TARDIS. My criticism is the abrupt resolution to the story. I understand it’s done in order to give time to the epilogue, which is brilliant, but it’s a shame we didn’t have another ten minutes to the episode. I don’t normally dabble in spoilers, but I could’ve sworn I saw an image of the Black & White Guardians on the streets. Am I misremembering or a deleted scene? It was there it was all done in close-up though Regards mark687
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Post by doctorkernow on Feb 9, 2020 21:34:06 GMT
Hello again. A really good episode dealing with a difficult subject in a relatively non-clunky way. I enjoyed the atmosphere of the story, great effects,really effective direction, they jump-scared me twice with those flipping dream monsters and again good use of regular and guest cast. Loved the animation too. Has animation been used before? Apart from the Marco Polo map and the BBC Micro effects used in the 1980s. The resolution was a bit technobabble. But using the immortals tricks against them, very Doctorish. The change of pace at the end was rather abrupt. However, the stories about the regular cast and the way their travels with the Doctor have impacted their former lives does make me wonder if we might see the fam breaking up. I hope not, I have really enjoyed this TARDIS crew. All of them have their strengths and the Doctor will miss them. She will end up talking to herself again! Another enjoyable episode. This season has been more consistent. It is such a shame there is no much venom from fans and apathy from the general public. I enjoyed about half of season 11 but this one has been a step up. Even more assured performances from the regulars. Some great moments featuring Doctor Who alumni and some new writing and directing talent. I hope the final three episodes end series 12 on a high.
Oh and thanks for the creepy fingers Doctor Who, if I have nightmares....
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 9, 2020 21:34:35 GMT
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Post by shallacatop on Feb 9, 2020 21:37:15 GMT
Oh, how could I forget? The animated sequence was gorgeous!
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Post by number13 on Feb 9, 2020 22:04:45 GMT
Whilst I would say that the defeat was a little convenient, I also really enjoyed tonight's episode... Now, why couldn't the last series have been this consistently good? "So, we have an old bloke, a black guy & an Asian? When're we getting a lesbian?" I don't know father, maybe when you start shutting up about it?... That would have been two seasons ago... and Bill was excellent! And the Doctor's bio-mechanical chum Nardole was fun. 'Exposition and Comic Relief' lol, a line only Missy would say. But they were a great team with Twelve.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Feb 9, 2020 22:10:44 GMT
Those fingers... brrr...
Overall, a very satisfying episode. I loved the response to a call for help going pear shaped, the nightmares becoming real and the way that the team have been covering up their absences. It was a great mashup of genre and style with some excellent guest actors. My only problem was that it was so darkly lit all the way through. I loved that we got some insight into the team’s lives, especially that the conversations that Ryan seems to have to have with guest characters each episode (what Supernatural called “sitting under a bridge processing our feelings”) have been due to him feeling a little unsure of himself and what he’s doing. Yaz had some excellent backstory, too, although I would like to have had a little more detail on that as well. The only down note would be Graham confiding to the Doctor at the end and having her not giving him the reassurance he needs, but she did say that she would think of something shortly, which goes to show that nobody has all the answers. Also, the escape from the handcuffs was a little ridiculous, but no less so than how 4 used a high note to break a window in Kroll or even why 7 got into his predicament at the end of Dragonfire 1. A good, solid episode.
... except for those fingers...
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Post by ollychops on Feb 9, 2020 22:13:00 GMT
Mixed feelings about that episode, if I’m honest. Some good bits, some not so good bits. I like that Yaz got more development but felt it came out of nowhere. Maybe they should have alluded to the running away thing/mental health issues earlier on, that way I think this episode would have felt like it had more payoff for Yaz. And what exactly were her and her sister celebrating? The anniversary of her running away? What?
Though, I did like the call back to Orphan 55 (even if I’d rather forget that episode), at least it shows that the adventures are actually having some sort of effect on the companions.
Also I hated Thirteen’s response to Graham confiding in her. I think it goes against the message of the episode, but there you go.
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Post by scriptortempore on Feb 9, 2020 22:20:10 GMT
Mixed feelings about that episode, if I’m honest. Some good bits, some not so good bits. I like that Yaz got more development but felt it came out of nowhere. Maybe they should have alluded to the running away thing/mental health issues earlier on, that way I think this episode would have felt like it had more payoff for Yaz. And what exactly were her and her sister celebrating? The anniversary of her running away? What? Though, I did like the call back to Orphan 55 (even if I’d rather forget that episode), at least it shows that the adventures are actually having some sort of effect on the companions. Also I hated Thirteen’s response to Graham confiding in her. I think it goes against the message of the episode, but there you go. 13's response came out of nowhere and was a pretty gross end to a solid couple of minutes of nice character moments at the end there. It felt very out of character. It's ridiculous to have your character give on the spot speeches and then suddenly decide she can't even manage a "I don't know what to say, but you are so brave" etc standard thing. It really was awful imo.
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