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Post by sherlock on Dec 28, 2023 15:45:34 GMT
Finished this set, and yeah my opinion hasn’t changed. A lot of stuff happens with this cast of thousands but no idea what anyone is actually working towards. We spend two episodes of Ace putting together a team and four episodes later still no idea what she needs them all for yet.
The whole moral dilemma they pitched in Vortex is non existent. The Doctor has already made his deal with the devil to fix everything and is showing no doubts about it. This also weirdly forces McCoy into the background of his own celebration. Aldred gets much more time with multiple Aces, who are handily easy to distinguish as one is so much an obvious villain there’s no confusing them. Dunno how intentional that was, but nuance has left the building regardless.
Regarding Fitton claiming this was very accessible to newcomers. Lol.
Dark Universe feels very necessary so far. As someone who has not listened to it, there’s a clear sense this is a continuation of that. I will certainly be looking to acquire that before even trying Part 2.
Elements of The Quantum Possibility Engine seem to reappear but unlike the Dark Universe links there was enough context offered that it doesn’t feel absolutely necessary. But who knows how much Part 2 will lean on it.
As mentioned above, there is very little handholding on returning characters. You either get their significance or you might want to peek at TARDIS Wiki.
Will I get Part 2? Well I do feel somewhat invested, but it’s very much a sense of as I’ve done this far I might as well see it through rather than hankering to know what happens next.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 16:51:05 GMT
Finished it..you know, when this was announced I couldn't wait. Even with so many characters. Colin's last box had loads, that worked. This would too, surely? Right? RIGHT?
If Fitton thinks this is accessible for relative newbies? Well, I'd say it's barely accessible for veterans. Stupidly deep cuts in places. Character after character thrown against the wall. Split the eps up and it has more in common with Once And Future (NOT a good thing) than anything else but at least there I'd be sure all listeners knew who the characters were. Here? I, and other fans who listen to the lot will know who they are but most characters did little but be walking, talking "here's something from BF's 7th era...and TV..and books!" Who was this kitchen sink approach aimed at? This was dense but not deep, sppoke a lot but didn't say anything. Perhaps fittingly for this Doctor, it reminded me of the worst excesses of the Virgin New Adventures where "What do you mean you don't remember that guy 50 books ago?" seemed to often happen. At least most of them had the excuse of being baby writers just starting out.
This wasn't even good drama for what it was. There was little sense of cause, of stakes, of emotions, of status quo. I still think in terms of being a convoluted dog's dinner this has most in common with The Doctor Of War, yet even there we had the moment of change, and reference points. That was a bad story but it had more of a story. "OK, So Tom changed HERE.." and "OK, this is the equivalent of THAT scene from the real canon..." etc. This story was like a prologue stretched out to an impossible length. When Sylv turned up in Ep 3 I thought the plot came with him. No.It left with him too. Back to "and here's Benny now!" and the likes with Sylv only in a small part thereafter. That'd be fine if what we got felt warranted or interesting. It really doesn't. It's an episode worth of material with WAY too many people rolled way too thin.
And we're in 2024, nearly, the "The most evil creature in the universe, worse than Daleks, worse than Cybermen...it's....THE DOCTOR" reveal has been done so many times in every media it feels like parody and impossibly lazy writing to try and have shorthand for "the character can be dark..". Especially egregious in a story that is anything but shorthand.
A major let down from BF. I hold out little hope that the elements in here can turn into much better for the second set. You'd need to ditch half the cast. Honestly a simple(ish) Ace Vs. The Doctor would have done, 4 discer at most for the whole story if that, not 2 boxsets. Look at their past together. Throwing Kane in from Ace's debut doesn't do that - it's a reference, doesn't actually say anything. Didn't need to be a dark universe - Ace and Seven have enough baggage in the real one. USE IT!
Frankly, if this is The Last Day? Bring on San Francisco 1999, a street gang and an ambulance driver called Bruce. Come in, Number Eight!
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Post by timleschild on Dec 28, 2023 17:01:06 GMT
Well this sounds poor.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 28, 2023 17:06:47 GMT
Oh my.
I had high hopes for this.
But sounds like a poor rehash of the already poor Once and Future.
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Post by sherlock on Dec 28, 2023 17:28:44 GMT
Finished it..you know, when this was announced I couldn't wait. Even with so many characters. Colin's last box had loads, that worked. This would too, surely? Right? RIGHT? If Fitton thinks this is accessible for relative newbies? Well, I'd say it's barely accessible for veterans. Stupidly deep cuts in places. Character after character thrown against the wall. Split the eps up and it has more in common with Once And Future (NOT a good thing) than anything else but at least there I'd be sure all listeners knew who the characters were. Here? I, and other fans who listen to the lot will know who they are but most characters did little but be walking, talking "here's something from BF's 7th era...and TV..and books!" Who was this kitchen sink approach aimed at? This was dense but not deep, sppoke a lot but didn't say anything. Perhaps fittingly for this Doctor, it reminded me of the worst excesses of the Virgin New Adventures where "What do you mean you don't remember that guy 50 books ago?" seemed to often happen. At least most of them had the excuse of being baby writers just starting out. This wasn't even good drama for what it was. There was little sense of cause, of stakes, of emotions, of status quo. I still think in terms of being a convoluted dog's dinner this has most in common with The Doctor Of War, yet even there we had the moment of change, and reference points. That was a bad story but it had more of a story. "OK, So Tom changed HERE.." and "OK, this is the equivalent of THAT scene from the real canon..." etc. This story was like a prologue stretched out to an impossible length. When Sylv turned up in Ep 3 I thought the plot came with him. No.It left with him too. Back to "and here's Benny now!" and the likes with Sylv only in a small part thereafter. That'd be fine if what we got felt warranted or interesting. It really doesn't. It's an episode worth of material with WAY too many people rolled way too thin. And we're in 2024, nearly, the "The most evil creature in the universe, worse than Daleks, worse than Cybermen...it's....THE DOCTOR" reveal has been done so many times in every media it feels like parody and impossibly lazy writing to try and have shorthand for "the character can be dark..". Especially egregious in a story that is anything but shorthand. A major let down from BF. I hold out little hope that the elements in here can turn into much better for the second set. You'd need to ditch half the cast. Honestly a simple(ish) Ace Vs. The Doctor would have done, 4 discer at most for the whole story if that, not 2 boxsets. Look at their past together. Throwing Kane in from Ace's debut doesn't do that - it's a reference, doesn't actually say anything. Didn't need to be a dark universe - Ace and Seven have enough baggage in the real one. USE IT! Frankly, if this is The Last Day? Bring on San Francisco 1999, a street gang and an ambulance driver called Bruce. Come in, Number Eight! The lack of drama is the real killer for this set. We know from minute one the universe is broken so the dreaded Reset Button is coming in episode 12. Fine, still room for character development. Except Seven is in an oasis of his own with nobody questioning his decisions. Where’s the drama? Closest we get is Unnamed Time Lord #467 suggesting it might be nice for a planet with orchids not to perish in a nuclear holocaust, but he’s not that invested really. The Doctor spends most of his scenes with Alt-Ace, who just seems to take his word as gospel. From behind the scenes it sounds like the priority was “cast of thousands” not the actual meat. Just like Once and Future. Frankly if they were married to “the Doctor is the villain!” storyline; have the guts to show us why. I don’t know why the Doctor’s doing what he’s doing here. Maybe Dark Universe gives me that vital context. But if so (and somehow I doubt it), why market this as newcomer friendly?! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 17:31:33 GMT
Is there any indication so far why mother is included? That baffled me when I saw the cover.
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Post by sherlock on Dec 28, 2023 17:32:35 GMT
Is there any indication so far why mother is included? That baffled me when I saw the cover. She exchanges insults with the Master. That’s about the sum of her contribution so far. |
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Post by muddyviolet on Dec 28, 2023 17:37:35 GMT
Is there any indication so far why mother is included? That baffled me when I saw the cover. Honestly I think its Matt Fitton wanting to include his villains. Same with Graudel. Unless volume 2 changes things it seems like characters are being included for the point of "Hey look its that person! Remember them from that one story? Of course you do its fan favourite: Hob!" |
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Post by shallacatop on Dec 28, 2023 17:59:55 GMT
Finished it..you know, when this was announced I couldn't wait. Even with so many characters. Colin's last box had loads, that worked. This would too, surely? Right? RIGHT? If Fitton thinks this is accessible for relative newbies? Well, I'd say it's barely accessible for veterans. Stupidly deep cuts in places. Character after character thrown against the wall. Split the eps up and it has more in common with Once And Future (NOT a good thing) than anything else but at least there I'd be sure all listeners knew who the characters were. Here? I, and other fans who listen to the lot will know who they are but most characters did little but be walking, talking "here's something from BF's 7th era...and TV..and books!" Who was this kitchen sink approach aimed at? This was dense but not deep, sppoke a lot but didn't say anything. Perhaps fittingly for this Doctor, it reminded me of the worst excesses of the Virgin New Adventures where "What do you mean you don't remember that guy 50 books ago?" seemed to often happen. At least most of them had the excuse of being baby writers just starting out. This wasn't even good drama for what it was. There was little sense of cause, of stakes, of emotions, of status quo. I still think in terms of being a convoluted dog's dinner this has most in common with The Doctor Of War, yet even there we had the moment of change, and reference points. That was a bad story but it had more of a story. "OK, So Tom changed HERE.." and "OK, this is the equivalent of THAT scene from the real canon..." etc. This story was like a prologue stretched out to an impossible length. When Sylv turned up in Ep 3 I thought the plot came with him. No.It left with him too. Back to "and here's Benny now!" and the likes with Sylv only in a small part thereafter. That'd be fine if what we got felt warranted or interesting. It really doesn't. It's an episode worth of material with WAY too many people rolled way too thin. And we're in 2024, nearly, the "The most evil creature in the universe, worse than Daleks, worse than Cybermen...it's....THE DOCTOR" reveal has been done so many times in every media it feels like parody and impossibly lazy writing to try and have shorthand for "the character can be dark..". Especially egregious in a story that is anything but shorthand. A major let down from BF. I hold out little hope that the elements in here can turn into much better for the second set. You'd need to ditch half the cast. Honestly a simple(ish) Ace Vs. The Doctor would have done, 4 discer at most for the whole story if that, not 2 boxsets. Look at their past together. Throwing Kane in from Ace's debut doesn't do that - it's a reference, doesn't actually say anything. Didn't need to be a dark universe - Ace and Seven have enough baggage in the real one. USE IT! Frankly, if this is The Last Day? Bring on San Francisco 1999, a street gang and an ambulance driver called Bruce. Come in, Number Eight! The lack of drama is the real killer for this set. We know from minute one the universe is broken so the dreaded Reset Button is coming in episode 12. Fine, still room for character development. Except Seven is in an oasis of his own with nobody questioning his decisions. Where’s the drama? Closest we get is Unnamed Time Lord #467 suggesting it might be nice for a planet with orchids not to perish in a nuclear holocaust, but he’s not that invested really. The Doctor spends most of his scenes with Alt-Ace, who just seems to take his word as gospel. From behind the scenes it sounds like the priority was “cast of thousands” not the actual meat. Just like Once and Future. Frankly if they were married to “the Doctor is the villain!” storyline; have the guts to show us why. I don’t know why the Doctor’s doing what he’s doing here. Maybe Dark Universe gives me that vital context. But if so (and somehow I doubt it), why market this as newcomer friendly?! Not listened to The Last Day yet, but I don’t think you’ll get anything from Dark Universe; it’s all over the place and has far too much for a four part running length. Anything of remote interest is glossed over or told in clunky, brief exposition. Based on the comments on this thread, they both seem to have the same sort of issues; a greatly reduced role for Sylv and misleading marketing. |
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Post by number13 on Dec 28, 2023 20:59:07 GMT
Having glanced at the comments so far I should thank DU collectively for saving me £41.
A pity. 
Maybe the second volume will be amazing, in which case the bundle can still be bought.
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Post by number13 on Dec 28, 2023 21:07:10 GMT
Finished it..you know, when this was announced I couldn't wait. Even with so many characters. Colin's last box had loads, that worked. This would too, surely? Right? RIGHT? If Fitton thinks this is accessible for relative newbies? Well, I'd say it's barely accessible for veterans. Stupidly deep cuts in places. Character after character thrown against the wall. Split the eps up and it has more in common with Once And Future (NOT a good thing) than anything else but at least there I'd be sure all listeners knew who the characters were. Here? I, and other fans who listen to the lot will know who they are but most characters did little but be walking, talking "here's something from BF's 7th era...and TV..and books!" Who was this kitchen sink approach aimed at? This was dense but not deep, sppoke a lot but didn't say anything. Perhaps fittingly for this Doctor, it reminded me of the worst excesses of the Virgin New Adventures where "What do you mean you don't remember that guy 50 books ago?" seemed to often happen. At least most of them had the excuse of being baby writers just starting out. This wasn't even good drama for what it was. There was little sense of cause, of stakes, of emotions, of status quo. I still think in terms of being a convoluted dog's dinner this has most in common with The Doctor Of War, yet even there we had the moment of change, and reference points. That was a bad story but it had more of a story. "OK, So Tom changed HERE.." and "OK, this is the equivalent of THAT scene from the real canon..." etc. This story was like a prologue stretched out to an impossible length. When Sylv turned up in Ep 3 I thought the plot came with him. No.It left with him too. Back to "and here's Benny now!" and the likes with Sylv only in a small part thereafter. That'd be fine if what we got felt warranted or interesting. It really doesn't. It's an episode worth of material with WAY too many people rolled way too thin. And we're in 2024, nearly, the "The most evil creature in the universe, worse than Daleks, worse than Cybermen...it's....THE DOCTOR" reveal has been done so many times in every media it feels like parody and impossibly lazy writing to try and have shorthand for "the character can be dark..". Especially egregious in a story that is anything but shorthand. A major let down from BF. I hold out little hope that the elements in here can turn into much better for the second set. You'd need to ditch half the cast. Honestly a simple(ish) Ace Vs. The Doctor would have done, 4 discer at most for the whole story if that, not 2 boxsets. Look at their past together. Throwing Kane in from Ace's debut doesn't do that - it's a reference, doesn't actually say anything. Didn't need to be a dark universe - Ace and Seven have enough baggage in the real one. USE IT! Frankly, if this is The Last Day? Bring on San Francisco 1999, a street gang and an ambulance driver called Bruce. Come in, Number Eight! The lack of drama is the real killer for this set. We know from minute one the universe is broken so the dreaded Reset Button is coming in episode 12. Fine, still room for character development. Except Seven is in an oasis of his own with nobody questioning his decisions. Where’s the drama? Closest we get is Unnamed Time Lord #467 suggesting it might be nice for a planet with orchids not to perish in a nuclear holocaust, but he’s not that invested really. The Doctor spends most of his scenes with Alt-Ace, who just seems to take his word as gospel. From behind the scenes it sounds like the priority was “cast of thousands” not the actual meat. Just like Once and Future. Frankly if they were married to “the Doctor is the villain!” storyline; have the guts to show us why. I don’t know why the Doctor’s doing what he’s doing here. Maybe Dark Universe gives me that vital context. But if so (and somehow I doubt it), why market this as newcomer friendly?! I'm assuming that this story and 'Dark Universe' MUST tie together, because while I enjoyed 'Dark Universe' very much, the Doctor is very very ruthless in that story and the structure is unusual to say the least.
This is what I wrote when it came out: 'The two CDs were separated by such a gap of time, setting, style and situation that it felt almost as if I'd heard the first and last episodes of a box set (or even a range) but missed out all the middle!'
There's a huge jump halfway through the story, and it concludes with the citizens of the Dark Universe telling the Doctor ''We will hold you to your word... we will remember...' whatever deal he did with them. If 'The Last Day'; doesn't fill that gap one way or the other then I can't imagine what the reasoning would have been. |
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Post by mark687 on Dec 28, 2023 21:12:41 GMT
The lack of drama is the real killer for this set. We know from minute one the universe is broken so the dreaded Reset Button is coming in episode 12. Fine, still room for character development. Except Seven is in an oasis of his own with nobody questioning his decisions. Where’s the drama? Closest we get is Unnamed Time Lord #467 suggesting it might be nice for a planet with orchids not to perish in a nuclear holocaust, but he’s not that invested really. The Doctor spends most of his scenes with Alt-Ace, who just seems to take his word as gospel. From behind the scenes it sounds like the priority was “cast of thousands” not the actual meat. Just like Once and Future. Frankly if they were married to “the Doctor is the villain!” storyline; have the guts to show us why. I don’t know why the Doctor’s doing what he’s doing here. Maybe Dark Universe gives me that vital context. But if so (and somehow I doubt it), why market this as newcomer friendly?! Not listened to The Last Day yet, but I don’t think you’ll get anything from Dark Universe; it’s all over the place and has far too much for a four part running length. Anything of remote interest is glossed over or told in clunky, brief exposition. Based on the comments on this thread, they both seem to have the same sort of issues; a greatly reduced role for Sylv and misleading marketing. Problem is you will get more having listened to Dark Universe then not (not a lot granted but it gives Last Day vol 1 a modicum more context,) Regards mark687 |
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melkur
Chancellery Guard
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Post by melkur on Dec 28, 2023 22:33:11 GMT
I didn't 'mind' this release, as such, but it did take a little while to start getting anywhere, and does very much feel like half of a story... You know, because it is.
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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 28, 2023 22:54:47 GMT
I'm near the end of episode 1, it has potential so far but I'm concerned by the posts on this thread.
It sounds like 7 is pushed to the background once again, which I've always found tiresome.
Far too often 7 is off manipulating things behind the scenes or has vanished mysteriously. I thought at least on his Last Day, 7 would take centre stage.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 28, 2023 23:47:29 GMT
Okay…. So we’re allowed to cast the seventh Doctor as a villain, but…. Not the War Doctor? Not the incarnation SPECIFICALLY said to hav3 been ostracised from the Doctor’s psyche because of “unDoctorly conduct”? We can’t have the War Doctor being morally ambiguous … but it’s fine to do that to the seventh Doctor?
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Post by muddyviolet on Dec 29, 2023 9:07:58 GMT
Okay so I think epsiodes 5 and 6 are significantly better. I genuinely think the first 4 could be condensed into 2 episodes and be better. It has a far too confusing opening however things get better and more solid as the boxset goes along.
Id say this is a 6/10 with definite room for it to be good depending on how it ends.
I do think ill buy the second part, I'm definitely hopeful and the ending of the first boxset does make me optimistic this will turn out for the best.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2023 13:45:48 GMT
Looks like I'll be giving this release a miss too.
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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 30, 2023 0:10:41 GMT
Just finished episode 4. This a strange set to judge so far, I'm mostly enjoying the ensemble tale, although a long term gripe of mine is sets that push 7 to the sidelines.
Episodes 1 - 2 are a fun recruitment drive from Ace, putting together a team up squad of villains.
Episode 3 was also good but a little confusing over which version of the 7th Doctor we're following as the new timeline Timelord president. Is this the 7 we know, going too far under the Dark citizens influence or an alternative 7?
Episode 4 felt quite pointless, Mel and Benny wonder through a narrow tunnel for 30 minutes. The whole episode could have been cut down to 5 minutes and we could then have something more interesting or an extra villain for Ace's crew, anyone for the original Kandyman?
Episode 1 - 3 = 8/10.
Episode 4 = 5/10
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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 30, 2023 19:45:15 GMT
Just finished, I have mixed feelings. As an ensemble piece, it's mostly good, with interesting seeds sown. Part 2 may elevate this set if the pay off is worth the build up.
As a victory lap for the 7th Doctor it's a massive let down. The set is so focused on including as many nods to previous 7th Doctor companions and villains that it forgets to include the 7th Doctor.
We get a couple of 1 minute monologues from our 7th Doctor and a 30 minute episode with a corrupted/antagonist version of 7. The set finishes with another minute or so of villain Doctor, and that's our lot at the halfway point.
We're told in the behind the scenes extras the intention for the sets is a victory lap cramming in familiar faces. I think it's pretty insulting to the 7th Doctor and McCoy to have him almost absent from his own "Victory lap". Take away this so called villain 7th doctor, and we have about 3 minutes of McCoy.
Now on a positive note, Ace is great, we get plenty of time with both versions, and most of her interactions with her recruits are fun. Hex is also good, where he ends the set is an interesting angle for part two.
So the actual story itself, I've enjoyed, with the exception of Mel & Benny's mundane tunnel episode. Had this set been marketed as an ensemble piece about a rogue timeline, I'd find it a solid release but as a final adventure for 7, it leaves me cold.
I hope part 2 gives us more 7th Doctor and less box ticking cameos.
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Post by theillusiveman on Dec 31, 2023 7:57:22 GMT
Not filling me with Confidence :/
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