|
Post by elkawho on Jan 1, 2024 3:02:15 GMT
Well I was thoroughly disappointed by this release. Which is strange because I usually love scripts by both Guy Adams and Matt Fitton. I agree with everything that's been said. Too little of Seven and no coherent plot to speak of. I love Hex and I'm always happy to have him back, but it seems like such a wasted story to have him in. I do hope the next part is better, but I shouldn't have to. This should have made me eager to hear the rest, and it really hasn't done that.
|
|
|
Post by 20fridge on Jan 3, 2024 20:47:33 GMT
I quite enjoyed this one. The premise of the 7th Doctor going completely off the rails is an interesting one. I loved Ace assembling her team, though the Mother seems like an odd choice since she's a 3rd Doctor villain not a 7th Doctor one.
I can see the argument that this is supposed to be a victory lap for the 7th Doctor, but with no proper 7th Doctor be disappointing but I do wonder if this set is supposed to be a victory lap for the companions and the next set is supposed to be for the Doctor. It wouldn't surprise me if the not president Ace is working for a good version of the 7th Doctor, or trying to restore a version of the Doctor to fight the evil one.
|
|
|
Post by SG. on Jan 3, 2024 22:38:13 GMT
Not filling me with Confidence :/ No comment on the actual opinion from that tweet, but them saying McCoy in one scene sounds like they've listened to the first part and not all 6 from the first set.
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Jan 3, 2024 22:39:24 GMT
Not filling me with Confidence :/ No comment on the actual opinion from that tweet, but them saying McCoy in one scene sounds like they've listened to the first part and not all 6 from the first set. They say as much in first line of the quoted tweet. They have done a full review since which I haven’t listened to yet.
|
|
|
Post by SG. on Jan 3, 2024 22:41:17 GMT
No comment on the actual opinion from that tweet, but them saying McCoy in one scene sounds like they've listened to the first part and not all 6 from the first set. They say as much in first line of the quoted tweet. They have done a full review since which I haven’t listened to yet. Sure, I was just speaking for clarity as the set is also called Part One - nice and confusing, BF.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Jan 4, 2024 10:03:24 GMT
I thought this was an incomprehensible mess and yet I couldn't stop listening. I was completely fascinated about how much more the whole thing could fall apart, with such deep cuts and things unfolding because Fitton & Adams decree it so, rather than with any sense of plot logic. I'll be honest, I wasn't expecting greatness from this set due to the writing duo assigned - we have Fitton who's kitchen sink approach rarely sticks the landing and Adams who rarely writes something great over the 60 minute mark and are both script editing each other! - but felt that we could have a nice finale for Seven if Sylv brought his A-game. Unfortunately he's only in the 3 hours for about 5 minutes, 10 if we're being generous, and what we do get is just him going through the motions and a step down from his recent performances in Far from Home & Genius of War. And from what little we do get, I'm not actually sure if this is THE Doctor? We're certainly not following THE Ace, who is pretty much the backbone of the set.
There's so much going on without any particular reasoning for it that there's no drama associated with any of it. I don't really get what they're aiming for, I cannot picture the characters interacting, just a motley crew of the actors in recording booths together. It just all listens like Fitton, Adams, Richardson, et al. couldn't get beyond the back slapping of getting so many references and actors together to produce something that's actually of any worth. Everything reported in the Vortex article is completely misleading, frankly.
These types of stories are very difficult to execute on screen, never mind on audio where you don't have the luxury of visuals to quickly get sequences across or being able to constantly flit from scene to scene. The Last Day doesn't even attempt to consider that. We get the crew with The Master who were last in part two rocking up in part six and we're expected to just carry on where they left off, despite there being an intervening 90 minutes. And I think Benny & Mel must travel about a mile across the whole three hours!
Not just disappointing, but a really poor showing from Big Finish from every production aspect.
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Jan 4, 2024 10:58:37 GMT
I thought this was an incomprehensible mess and yet I couldn't stop listening. I was completely fascinated about how much more the whole thing could fall apart, with such deep cuts and things unfolding because Fitton & Adams decree it so, rather than with any sense of plot logic. I'll be honest, I wasn't expecting greatness from this set due to the writing duo assigned - we have Fitton who's kitchen sink approach rarely sticks the landing and Adams who rarely writes something great over the 60 minute mark and are both script editing each other! - but felt that we could have a nice finale for Seven if Sylv brought his A-game. Unfortunately he's only in the 3 hours for about 5 minutes, 10 if we're being generous, and what we do get is just him going through the motions and a step down from his recent performances in Far from Home & Genius of War. And from what little we do get, I'm not actually sure if this is THE Doctor? We're certainly not following THE Ace, who is pretty much the backbone of the set. There's so much going on without any particular reasoning for it that there's no drama associated with any of it. I don't really get what they're aiming for, I cannot picture the characters interacting, just a motley crew of the actors in recording booths together. It just all listens like Fitton, Adams, Richardson, et al. couldn't get beyond the back slapping of getting so many references and actors together to produce something that's actually of any worth. Everything reported in the Vortex article is completely misleading, frankly. These types of stories are very difficult to execute on screen, never mind on audio where you don't have the luxury of visuals to quickly get sequences across or being able to constantly flit from scene to scene. The Last Day doesn't even attempt to consider that. We get the crew with The Master who were last in part two rocking up in part six and we're expected to just carry on where they left off, despite there being an intervening 90 minutes. And I think Benny & Mel must travel about a mile across the whole three hours! Not just disappointing, but a really poor showing from Big Finish from every production aspect. It is kind of a fascinating listen as a failure of basic storytelling. There’s no real protagonist as we don’t really stick with Ace and everyone else comes and goes, we know no-one’s motivations beyond the villains agreeing to save the universe because they have to live in it and Hex not wanting his daughter to work for a fascist regime, and there’s just no structure. I guess this is just what happens when writers’ priorities are just shoving in as many characters as possible.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Jan 4, 2024 11:26:38 GMT
For me its the same "Error" as Once and Future but more obvious prob lay conceived as a longer one off story then as it got closer to recording changed to a multi-volume thing and it ends up sounding like a confused mess and then when Vol 2 comes out it'll make better sense in context but even then, that's probably reliant on one of the obscure bits from this one.
Regards
mark687
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Jan 4, 2024 11:50:26 GMT
For me its the same "Error" as Once and Future but more obvious prob lay conceived as a longer one off story then as it got closer to recording changed to a multi-volume thing and it ends up sounding like a confused mess and then when Vol 2 comes out it'll make better sense in context but even then, that's probably reliant on one of the obscure bits from this one. Regards mark687 I feel like Once and Future is more forgivable as writers were being given bizarre briefs of mix/match characters (could anyone really make a cohesive story featuring Sixie, Jackie, Christina, the Two and Harry?) by producers who were making the arc up as actors became available. Whereas with this Fitton and Adams seem to have much more control over what they wanted to do and chose to pursue this angle.
|
|
|
Post by bonehead on Jan 4, 2024 12:03:54 GMT
There are two issues here as I see it (and I must stress I haven't bought this release). Something as long-running as Doctor Who has some sort of anniversary every few weeks if you look hard enough (25th November 2024 is the 46th anniversary of the first sighting of the Taran Woodbeast, for example). Secondly, Big Finish love a celebratory get-together. So - we have these kind of grand 'mash-ups' quite regularly now - on top of the fact that many non-celebratory releases also feature such get-togethers. When something has become the norm, the only way an anniversary such as The Seventh Doctor's last story, is to go even bigger. It's far too much.
Big Finish - for the love of getting characters together for no particularly good reason.
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Jan 4, 2024 12:29:16 GMT
There are two issues here as I see it (and I must stress I haven't bought this release). Something as long-running as Doctor Who has some sort of anniversary every few weeks if you look hard enough (25th November 2024 is the 46th anniversary of the first sighting of the Taran Woodbeast, for example). Secondly, Big Finish love a celebratory get-together. So - we have these kind of grand 'mash-ups' quite regularly now - on top of the fact that many non-celebratory releases also feature such get-togethers. When something has become the norm, the only way an anniversary such as The Seventh Doctor's last story, is to go even bigger. It's far too much.
Big Finish - for the love of getting characters together for no particularly good reason.
I demand an Woodbeast anniversary box set!
'Beauty and the Woodbeast'
After their brief encounter by the statue, Woodie pines forlornly for Romana and wishes he hadn't done all that roaring and jumping about. Neatly fitted into the events of 'The Androids of Tara', Woodie is revealed (over four episodes, with Guardian-induced appearances from Leela, Iris, Kool Kat and Grand Marshal Tarax of the Sontaran Empire (posted to Tara due to a clerical error)) to have made amends by secretly helping Romana and the Doctor to overthrow Count Grendle. And at the end, he swims underwater to push K9's boat back to the shore. What a hero!
|
|
|
Post by bonehead on Jan 4, 2024 12:53:20 GMT
There are two issues here as I see it (and I must stress I haven't bought this release). Something as long-running as Doctor Who has some sort of anniversary every few weeks if you look hard enough (25th November 2024 is the 46th anniversary of the first sighting of the Taran Woodbeast, for example). Secondly, Big Finish love a celebratory get-together. So - we have these kind of grand 'mash-ups' quite regularly now - on top of the fact that many non-celebratory releases also feature such get-togethers. When something has become the norm, the only way an anniversary such as The Seventh Doctor's last story, is to go even bigger. It's far too much.
Big Finish - for the love of getting characters together for no particularly good reason.
I demand an Woodbeast anniversary box set!
'Beauty and the Woodbeast'
After their brief encounter by the statue, Woodie pines forlornly for Romana and wishes he hadn't done all that roaring and jumping about. Neatly fitted into the events of 'The Androids of Tara', Woodie is revealed (over four episodes, with Guardian-induced appearances from Leela, Iris, Kool Kat and Grand Marshal Tarax of the Sontaran Empire (posted to Tara due to a clerical error)) to have made amends by secretly helping Romana and the Doctor to overthrow Count Grendle. And at the end, he swims underwater to push K9's boat back to the shore. What a hero!
You see, I had ideas for this boxset too, but yours are better. I always wondered how K9 got back onto dry land!
My idea was that The Woodbeast was revealed as the distant cousin of the Garm, but he'd really let himself go. Reduced to stomping around the Wood (best place for a Woodbeast) and frightening innocent passers-by, he'd seemed beyond help; it would take the combined persuasive efforts of a Tereleptil and his brother from a different mother, The Delegate of Possicar to talk him into stop being so silly, to come back to the family cave, have a shower, comb his hair and think about getting a proper job!
|
|
|
Post by martinw8686 on Jan 4, 2024 18:13:30 GMT
There are two issues here as I see it (and I must stress I haven't bought this release). Something as long-running as Doctor Who has some sort of anniversary every few weeks if you look hard enough (25th November 2024 is the 46th anniversary of the first sighting of the Taran Woodbeast, for example). Secondly, Big Finish love a celebratory get-together. So - we have these kind of grand 'mash-ups' quite regularly now - on top of the fact that many non-celebratory releases also feature such get-togethers. When something has become the norm, the only way an anniversary such as The Seventh Doctor's last story, is to go even bigger. It's far too much.
Big Finish - for the love of getting characters together for no particularly good reason.
I demand an Woodbeast anniversary box set!
'Beauty and the Woodbeast'
After their brief encounter by the statue, Woodie pines forlornly for Romana and wishes he hadn't done all that roaring and jumping about. Neatly fitted into the events of 'The Androids of Tara', Woodie is revealed (over four episodes, with Guardian-induced appearances from Leela, Iris, Kool Kat and Grand Marshal Tarax of the Sontaran Empire (posted to Tara due to a clerical error)) to have made amends by secretly helping Romana and the Doctor to overthrow Count Grendle. And at the end, he swims underwater to push K9's boat back to the shore. What a hero!
It's also the 40th anniversary of Warriors of the Deep tomorrow. Perhaps a special Myrka boxset, with commemorative cds arriving in the post covered in wet paint!
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Jan 4, 2024 22:22:45 GMT
I demand an Woodbeast anniversary box set!
'Beauty and the Woodbeast'
After their brief encounter by the statue, Woodie pines forlornly for Romana and wishes he hadn't done all that roaring and jumping about. Neatly fitted into the events of 'The Androids of Tara', Woodie is revealed (over four episodes, with Guardian-induced appearances from Leela, Iris, Kool Kat and Grand Marshal Tarax of the Sontaran Empire (posted to Tara due to a clerical error)) to have made amends by secretly helping Romana and the Doctor to overthrow Count Grendle. And at the end, he swims underwater to push K9's boat back to the shore. What a hero!
It's also the 40th anniversary of Warriors of the Deep tomorrow. Perhaps a special Myrka boxset, with commemorative cds arriving in the post covered in wet paint! In a special two-part CD case with a join in the middle!
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Jan 4, 2024 22:23:42 GMT
I demand an Woodbeast anniversary box set!
'Beauty and the Woodbeast'
After their brief encounter by the statue, Woodie pines forlornly for Romana and wishes he hadn't done all that roaring and jumping about. Neatly fitted into the events of 'The Androids of Tara', Woodie is revealed (over four episodes, with Guardian-induced appearances from Leela, Iris, Kool Kat and Grand Marshal Tarax of the Sontaran Empire (posted to Tara due to a clerical error)) to have made amends by secretly helping Romana and the Doctor to overthrow Count Grendle. And at the end, he swims underwater to push K9's boat back to the shore. What a hero!
You see, I had ideas for this boxset too, but yours are better. I always wondered how K9 got back onto dry land!
My idea was that The Woodbeast was revealed as the distant cousin of the Garm, but he'd really let himself go. Reduced to stomping around the Wood (best place for a Woodbeast) and frightening innocent passers-by, he'd seemed beyond help; it would take the combined persuasive efforts of a Tereleptil and his brother from a different mother, The Delegate of Possicar to talk him into stop being so silly, to come back to the family cave, have a shower, comb his hair and think about getting a proper job! First sensible explanation I've ever heard for The Garm!
|
|
|
Post by eightelements on Jan 5, 2024 0:59:10 GMT
I feel like Once and Future is more forgivable as writers were being given bizarre briefs of mix/match characters (could anyone really make a cohesive story featuring Sixie, Jackie, Christina, the Two and Harry?) by producers who were making the arc up as actors became available. As a one-off 60-minute story, no. But make that same story the finale to a full-length TV series and you could totally make it work because the writers have the time to plant seeds and do foreshadowing. (Just make sure no-one tries to shortcut that process - the series needs to put in the work to make the payoff meaningful.) Actually, wasn't this Rose's arc in New Who Series 4?
|
|
|
Post by eightelements on Jan 5, 2024 1:15:38 GMT
The most important elements of any story are emotion, character and plot. Based on my reading of this thread, The Last Day 1 eschews all of them to fit in as many characters as possible.
Not an uncommon mistake - hear "character" as "having characters" when it is really talking about doing good characterization.
|
|
|
Post by martinw8686 on Jan 5, 2024 21:40:02 GMT
The most important elements of any story are emotion, character and plot. Based on my reading of this thread, The Last Day 1 eschews all of them to fit in as many characters as possible. Not an uncommon mistake - hear "character" as "having characters" when it is really talking about doing good characterization. I would say Hex and his daughter Cassie are given a reasonable emotional character plot line. They both justify inclusion in the story, perhaps Sally as well but the others collected here, not so much. Ace is a huge part of 7s journey, so her inclusion at the heart of the set makes sense. Although with 7 out of the spotlight there's more pressure for her scenes to stand out. Kane, Mother, Gerundel, Hob, Mel and Benny offer very little to the plot other than existing and filling time. Geoffrey Beevers Master is always brilliant and can justify his inclusion in any set.
|
|
lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,819
|
Post by lidar2 on Jan 8, 2024 17:27:12 GMT
I have bought this and the next one but I decided to hold off listening and to parts 1 and 2 together. Reading this thread is not filling me with excitement. Speaking as one who has not heard it, it seems like a consequence of the ending of the MR - every box set now has to be an Event, so when a genuine EVENT comes along it has to be even bigger and better than all the bog-standard Events. This is what BF seem to have attempted here, but it seems to have backfired because the release appears to have collapsed under the weight of its own "event-ness".
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Jan 9, 2024 0:38:00 GMT
I have bought this and the next one but I decided to hold off listening and to parts 1 and 2 together. Reading this thread is not filling me with excitement. Speaking as one who has not heard it, it seems like a consequence of the ending of the MR - every box set now has to be an Event, so when a genuine EVENT comes along it has to be even bigger and better than all the bog-standard Events. This is what BF seem to have attempted here, but it seems to have backfired because the release appears to have collapsed under the weight of its own "event-ness".And gone beyond the event horizon?
|
|