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Post by mark687 on Jun 20, 2024 14:24:10 GMT
Offical BBC Synopsis/Cast
The Doctor has lost, his ageless enemy reigns supreme, and a shadow is falling over creation. Nothing can stop the devastation... except, perhaps, one woman.
Cast (Incomplete)
The Doctor Ncuti Gatwa
Ruby Sunday Millie Gibson
Kate Lethbridge-Stewart Jemma Redgrave
Melanie Bush Bonnie Langford
Susan Triad Susan Twist
Rose Noble Yasmin Finney
Harriet Genesis Lynea
Morris Gibbons Lenny Rush
Colonel Ibrahim Alexander Devrient
Corporal Sullivan Jasmine Bayes
Mrs Flood Anita Dobson
Carla Sunday Michelle Greenidge
Cherry Sunday Angela Wynter
Kind Woman Sian Clifford
The Vlinx Aidan Cook
Voice of the Vlinx Nicholas Briggs
Regards
mark687
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Post by timleschild on Jun 20, 2024 14:26:01 GMT
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Post by mark687 on Jun 21, 2024 23:59:38 GMT
Well it was an Ep
There will be much debate as to what it ended up as
Forget about stick the landing it ended up at almost an entirely different airport
Oh and Shane if JR was Ok last week he'll be OK with this Weeks.
Regards
mark687
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jun 22, 2024 0:04:17 GMT
No landing was stuck IMO. A few great moments do not a finale make. But you know, Gallifrey's probably back now, so there's that.
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Post by Whovitt on Jun 22, 2024 0:35:57 GMT
I'm seeing a lot of underwhelmed reactions online, but I don't really get why. I went into this expecting to be underwhelmed, because it's so rare anything with a great setup sticks the landing. I thought this was quite an enjoyable episode. It would have been nice to have a bit more time dedicated to the Doctor and Sutekh's verbal sparring, but I thought the episode was good other than that. My concerns of "Sutekh isn't actually a god" were explained in an acceptable, if a little hand-wavy, way, and I don't hate the reveal involving Ruby's mum. Maybe it was my expectation to be underwhelmed, but when they were explaining the whole "she was pointing at the sign" thing, I simply said to myself "That doesn't make sense" and moved on. There are so many things in Doctor Who that don't make sense that this hardly rates highly in the grand scale of things.
What genuinely surprised me was this was Ruby's exit episode! Rumours have been flying around for ages, sure, but that doesn't actually mean anything, especially after we got the news announcement of a TARDIS trio for Season 2. I thought it was well-handled though, and one of the better New Series companion exits. There was no explanation given for why she can make it snow though, and that's a little irksome. I guess there must be more about her that we still don't know yet? She's definitely going to be involved in Season 2, so I assume we'll find out then.
I'm sure many people are probably disappointed we didn't get any revelations regarding Mrs Flood. Russell's been saying since the Christmas special that she'd be a slow burn though, so anyone thinking we'd learn anything in Season 1 was kidding themselves.
If there's anything I'd say was disappointing in any real way about the finale, it's the inclusion of Mel. I don't really know why they felt the need to bring her back for The Giggle, and I don't know why the felt the need to bring her back here. Both stories probably would have coped without her, as she doesn't really add that much to either. Don't get me wrong, it's great to see her again, but it would have been nice to see her doing something of any genuine importance.
I'm not someone who rates things out of 5 or 10 because those kinds of numbers feel very arbitrary to me. If I had to rate this one though, I'd probably go a 4/5, because I thought it was a perfectly serviceable finale. Compared to the large number of flat-out disappointing finales for the majority of the last decade and a half, I'll take serviceable any day!
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Post by theillusiveman on Jun 22, 2024 1:00:55 GMT
Congrats RTD on creating a finale that makes last of the time lords finale look like a masterpiece
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jun 22, 2024 1:12:33 GMT
Congrats RTD on creating a finale that makes last of the time lords finale look like a masterpiece OOOH, strong words there! STRONG LIKE BULL!
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Post by dasmaniac on Jun 22, 2024 1:42:35 GMT
Hmm, not sure about this one at all.
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Post by Star Platinum on Jun 22, 2024 2:48:25 GMT
It’s a traditional Davies finale, so the landing doesn’t quite stick, but that was to be expected.
I was gutted when he killed Kate, but once Carla bit the dust, I knew we’d get a reset button.
Still, it’s the journey, and not the destination that matters isn’t it. The idea that Sutekh was clinging on to the Tardis since PoM was a good one, and taking Big Finish into account, would have massively upped that death toll.
The memory Tardis is a nice set, if looking a little cramped. Was Nell hiding in the corner off screen in Tales of the Tardis? Not to mention there were lovely shots of her with the sixth and seventh Doctor’s costumes. Still, I was a little sad when Sutekh claimed Mel.
As for the reveal that Ruby’s parents were just regular people, I dont mind it. A lot of the episode was high concept material, so the more grounded family stuff at the end was a nice counterbalance, though I expect not all will see it that way.
it's not the best finale RTD has written, but it's far from the worst. I would put this above Last of the Timelords, Journeys end or End of time pt 2 any day.
Though i wish RTD had slipped in a line about Sutekh bringing the gift of life.
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Post by relativetime on Jun 22, 2024 2:57:35 GMT
This one left me feeling kind of cold and just kind of whelmed overall. It's not bad, but it's definitely a bit of a letdown from The Legend of Ruby Sunday, at least for me on first watching. I'm not surprised - it's absolutely classic RTD how it's handled here through and through - but yeahh it's still a little frustrating how very hamfisted and messy the climax and resolution was. Not sure if I'd say it's Last of the Time Lords messy, but it's definitely the most immediate rival of that one that RTD has done so far.
More importantly though, this episode cemented the glaringly obvious fact that 8 episodes is simply not enough time to get me invested in these characters and the show knows it. We needed waaaay more episodes like Rogue where the Doctor and Ruby just get to be friends having fun traveling together and facing monsters of the week. Episodes where we could have actually seen some of those other versions of Susan instead of just having them sprung on us in cameos in these last two episodes. Ruby leaving at the end of the episode also would have had so much more weight if I felt like I got to spend a significant amount of time with her, which frankly I did not. It's not a bad farewell, but it feels hollow in a way that it wouldn't if this was after 22 episodes for instance of adventures.
Like I said though it's not all bad. The scene with Ruby's mom was really really touching - I cried a little when they finally met. I'm glad they went this route with that storyline instead of the mystery box pleasing nonsense direction some OTHER big science fiction franchises went in (*glares at The Rise of Skywalker*). Ncuti also just completely carried this episode once again, just what an incredible choice he's been to play the Doctor! And of course I'm always happy to see my girl Mel getting some much deserved screentime once again! Getting to see her recognize her Doctor's coat in the TARDIS was also really emotional for me.
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Post by bethhigdon on Jun 22, 2024 3:33:34 GMT
I really liked that.
I don't know what people mean by 'not sticking the landing', because I think it's one of the very few RTD finales that actually does live up to the hype. I would only regard the Series 1 finale as better.
I appreciate that Ruby's parents were ordinary and not connected to the Doctor or some timey whimy explanation, and I loved seeing Mel getting more spotlight.
And I'm still keeping my Dodo theory despite the recent hints that Mrs Flood is not human... just because Dodo absolute would talk to an imaginary audience that only she can see and we all know it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 4:58:20 GMT
Awful. I've really liked this series but RTD goes back to his worst tendencies.
Villain is built up massively, then barely features. Sutekh defeated by magic rope? Sure. Remember Russell said he's had this idea for 50 years. Well, "magic rope to defeat Sutekh who's now a dog, so it's like a dog leash" sounds like something a kid would come up with!
Aside from that, the classic "Oh no, everyone's dead...for 20mins" deus ex RTDina. He said "not everyone will make it out alive". Umm...I don't think the bad guy will get too many tears if Sutekh is the death, Russell. And Sutekh's reign lasted how long? This is where the season being 8 eps is an issue as RTD could REALLY use an extra ep for this. The part where Sutekh has "won" and the gang are struggling to survive in a dying universe should be an episode. Not 5 minutes. Sutekh, if you don't know him from the classics, comes off poorly. He's so...nothing here. The face-off with him and The Doctor was a couple of lines. Again, rush, rush, rush. Pacing woeful. He wrote a finale for a full series - but didn't have room for it. Series 4 needs Turn Left to set up the finale 2-parter. Series 3 needed Utopia. Series 2 needed The Age Of Steel for Cybermen and the audience's familiarity with Daleks, Series 1 needed Dalek where "If one can do THIS, what can a million do?", along with the space station of The Long Game. This story needed that extra room. It wouldn't have fixed some fundamental issues but would help. If the 8 ep structure does not allow for this? Don't write like it's the 2005-2008 era.
Then Mrs Flood advances her story not one bit again. She's still the same as she was in Ruby Road. You want to advance mysteries, not just repeat them. Having her break the 4th wall again? We know she knew The Doctor and the TARDIS. So what? You're adding nothing new. Someone above said "But it's a slow burn" - you still move things ON. Did Avengers just show Thanos in every post credits saying "I'm going after the stones..." over and over? No - it told a story to move events along while maintaining the mystery of when and how things were coming to a head.
Ruby's parent's being regular people - I'm fine with. But that "the power we put on finding your mother..." is what somehow saves them all? No. That's SO dumb. How does a God who now can traverse time and space have trouble when 2043 DNA and UNIT 2024 both found the parents? At least Moffat tended to use the "power of love saved the day" for throway eps. Have them be normal people - but have a smarter way to defeat "the most powerful enemy I've ever faced".
And sorry, the "there's no record of either of your parent's DNA" now makes NO sense. Two Brits in their 30s have never had blood samples, been to the dentist, had hospital stays....no. That works when it's a mystery box, falls apart when it's really two normal people.
Still, Millie was great. She's been the star of the show. Yet they announced MONTHS ago she's back for Season 2 with Varada, so hard to even feel like that's a wrap for her arc. As far as we know ALL of Millie's stuff has been filmed in studio for S2 (most of the series has) so they could have tried to make her return a shock - not a press release over a year in advance when she'd just debuted.
The Doctor HAS to go looking for Susan at some point now or it craps all over his "you've changed me.." speech to Ruby about family. Carole Ann Ford won't be around forever. To have her back and then regenerate her? Her own "wearing a bit thin..." - it writes itself.
Again, Russell said he had the Pyramids sequel in mind for 50 years. But since all the Sutekh stuff is just "he's on Earth, kills everyone, then it's undone" - what was his actual sequel? As most of this was the Ruby story which was not what he said he had as ideas for half a century...
Just a dog's dinner that's like a bad souffle - looks lovely and big, then you cut in and there's nothing there, it falls flat. And I've liked or loved almost every ep. My brother liked this one more but he's a more casual viewer. My daughter will watch tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 5:39:04 GMT
Congrats RTD on creating a finale that makes last of the time lords finale look like a masterpiece OOOH, strong words there! STRONG LIKE BULL! I'd say it's hyperbole..but I agree. This does make his earlier finales - even if End Of Time is super bloated and histrionic - look terrific by comparison.
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Post by ryan on Jun 22, 2024 6:13:39 GMT
You know it's a bad finale when you react to Sutekh's demise with "Awww" because he looks so damn adorable.
Honestly, it made me want to wake up my dog and give her a hug.
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Post by shallacatop on Jun 22, 2024 7:38:52 GMT
A strange closing episode. Thought the first act was great and loved the final act with Ruby’s parentage. It’s as soon as the Doctor bumps into Sian Clifford that everything comes to a grinding halt for no real reason except as a way to segue the Sutekh story into the Ruby one, which were only superficially linked last week, so has a hard time trying to flow one into the other.
I don't think it’s helped by the idea that Sutekh has been around since Pyramids of Mars, it’s one of those ideas that falls apart very quickly, especially when he’s only started pissing about since the current era just so happened to begin! The poor bastard must’ve been beyond dizzy participating in The Day of the Doctor! Not sure it really explains the TARDIS doing the sort of landing it did in Destination Skaro, for example. Had they mentioned it was a combination of events in Wild Blue Yonder (they liked a flashback so it’s not like it would’ve stuck out!) with the TARDIS and the salt, I think that would’ve felt more earned.
Gabriel Woolf was brilliant, of course, but that middle act is missing another confrontation with the Doctor of sorts, I think, and he ultimately feels a bit wasted. Ncuti & Millie were both excellent too and I loved that they spent the episode together, which hasn’t really been done since the first three episodes of Ruby’s tenure. I will say the crying each episode lessened the impact of the Doctor’s fury in the Remembered TARDIS for me. I love this more emotional, more open Doctor, but it still needs to be used wisely to feel the impact. Still, well played by Ncuti.
I agree with others about Mel. It’s nice to have her presence, but we’ve got a character who is pretty much rebooted here and could therefore be anyone else. That's not a bad thing, and I’d argue the sensible way to approach it, but she’s just not in it or distinct enough at this stage. Her reintroduction in The Giggle is very much to build the UNIT setup and she does a couple of fleeting things; computer work and reassuring about regeneration. In this finale she has a couple of nice character moments, but is really there as a plot device to get Sutekh to her. Not a bad idea in itself, after all pretty much every companion can add possession to their CV, but I think she needs a bit more substance. It’s like bringing Sarah Jane back just for The Stolen Earth / Journey’s End, omitting School Reunion and the exploration of the Doctor’s relationship with her.
Intrigued what a rewatch will do, especially for that middle act. Bit of an odd cinema experience. Not bad, but it didn’t feel like that community spirit of The Day of the Doctor or Deep Breath; I’m not sure why they did the release really. It was a distinct finale from RTD, that’s for sure. First part was more traditional to his previous ones, but part two was almost Moffat in style, with a more understated chamber piece for the most part.
As an aside, this is at least the second time in this series where the story has hinged on a deleted scene. The jukebox in Space Babies and now a seemingly omitted reference to DNA testing in 73 Yards. Latest DWM references an extended opening to TLORS too. Hopefully we can get the runtime extended a touch next year?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 8:18:01 GMT
I don't think it’s helped by the idea that Sutekh has been around since Pyramids of Mars, it’s one of those ideas that falls apart very quickly, especially when he’s only started pissing about since the current era just so happened to begin! The poor bastard must’ve been beyond dizzy participating in The Day of the Doctor! Not sure it really explains the TARDIS doing the sort of landing it did in Destination Skaro, for example. Had they mentioned it was a combination of events in Wild Blue Yonder (they liked a flashback so it’s not like it would’ve stuck out!) with the TARDIS and the salt, I think that would’ve felt more earned. Or The Doctor's Wife. Or The Eleventh Hour. Or every time The TARDIS has rebuilt itself.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 8:20:42 GMT
"How have Ruby's parents gone 35 years without ANY record of them?", I asked above. It's worse...we know that by 2042 there IS a record.
But then by Boom there's none again as the ambulance can't find a next of kin? What? "Oh, that's the future", you may say - well, it found Ruby in two seconds!
This ep just collapses in the more I think on it.
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Post by sherlock on Jun 22, 2024 8:33:51 GMT
Well that was an RTD finale all right. He’s always been “Emotions > Plot” but this is the logical endpoint of that, where the series-long plot textually only matters because characters have invested their emotions into it and has no real significance beyond that. The extended epilogue landed for me because of how the scenes were performed and written, and possibly because I hadn’t spent weeks intensively theorising that Ruby’s mother was Susan/Jenny/an Osirian/another goddess etc, but I don’t blame people for feeling dejected at that twist. The series was offering a breadcrumb trail and then decided the loaf didn’t actually matter.
The story gets very handwavey, which isn’t unusual for RTD but this is definitely a new high of that. The TARDIS responds to whistles, Sutekh despite being able to control his abilities is apparently unable to stop himself dealing death to death, and UNIT HQ can now DNA search Ruby (which they probably should have led with last week instead of time travel).
All in all I enjoyed it but it’s not a home run by any means. Also this was the first, and probably last, midnight drop I watched on. Not really worth it tbh.
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Post by mark687 on Jun 22, 2024 8:40:42 GMT
I'm seeing a lot of underwhelmed reactions online, but I don't really get why. I went into this expecting to be underwhelmed, because it's so rare anything with a great setup sticks the landing. I thought this was quite an enjoyable episode. It would have been nice to have a bit more time dedicated to the Doctor and Sutekh's verbal sparring, but I thought the episode was good other than that. My concerns of "Sutekh isn't actually a god" were explained in an acceptable, if a little hand-wavy, way, and I don't hate the reveal involving Ruby's mum. Maybe it was my expectation to be underwhelmed, but when they were explaining the whole "she was pointing at the sign" thing, I simply said to myself "That doesn't make sense" and moved on. There are so many things in Doctor Who that don't make sense that this hardly rates highly in the grand scale of things. What genuinely surprised me was this was Ruby's exit episode! Rumours have been flying around for ages, sure, but that doesn't actually mean anything, especially after we got the news announcement of a TARDIS trio for Season 2. I thought it was well-handled though, and one of the better New Series companion exits. There was no explanation given for why she can make it snow though, and that's a little irksome. I guess there must be more about her that we still don't know yet? She's definitely going to be involved in Season 2, so I assume we'll find out then. I'm sure many people are probably disappointed we didn't get any revelations regarding Mrs Flood. Russell's been saying since the Christmas special that she'd be a slow burn though, so anyone thinking we'd learn anything in Season 1 was kidding themselves. If there's anything I'd say was disappointing in any real way about the finale, it's the inclusion of Mel. I don't really know why they felt the need to bring her back for The Giggle, and I don't know why the felt the need to bring her back here. Both stories probably would have coped without her, as she doesn't really add that much to either. Don't get me wrong, it's great to see her again, but it would have been nice to see her doing something of any genuine importance. I'm not someone who rates things out of 5 or 10 because those kinds of numbers feel very arbitrary to me. If I had to rate this one though, I'd probably go a 4/5, because I thought it was a perfectly serviceable finale. Compared to the large number of flat-out disappointing finales for the majority of the last decade and a half, I'll take serviceable any day! Surprised about Mel, I thought she was a strong positive throughout both EPs. I think serviceable dose some it up though, strange because up to this the Season had been how I think most people thought of 10 and Donna [Good stories with a very good [IMO it definitely was this Season Doc Companion Dynamic] Regards maark687
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 8:41:04 GMT
Well that was an RTD finale all right. He’s always been “Emotions > Plot” but this is the logical endpoint of that, where the series-long plot textually only matters because characters have invested their emotions into it and has no real significance beyond that. The extended epilogue landed for me because of how the scenes were performed and written, and possibly because I hadn’t spent weeks intensively theorising that Ruby’s mother was Susan/Jenny/an Osirian/another goddess etc, but I don’t blame people for feeling dejected at that twist. The series was offering a breadcrumb trail and then decided the loaf didn’t actually matter. The story gets very handwavey, which isn’t unusual for RTD but this is definitely a new high of that. The TARDIS responds to whistles, Sutekh despite being able to control his abilities is apparently unable to stop himself dealing death to death, and UNIT HQ can now DNA search Ruby (which they probably should have led with last week instead of time travel). All in all I enjoyed it but it’s not a home run by any means. Also this was the first, and probably last, midnight drop I watched on. Not really worth it tbh.I can only imagine the dejection of seeing it in the cinema. Midnight show and all you get is a 20 second intro from Millie saying "We love it, hope you do too, bye". Spending hard earned, headed out at midnight and getting THAT? I think I may have flung my wheelchair at the screen and took my chances my legs were in a good mood! ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/6343532/images/ZBDvOFPmQgNwxFXLpuoD.gif)
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